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New Scots police chief wages war on crime clans
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Author:  E7fan [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  New Scots police chief wages war on crime clans
STEPHEN HOUSE knows he is breaking new ground with his radical measures to STEPHEN HOUSE knows he is breaking new ground with his radical measures to fight the £2billion crime industry he says is poisoning Scotland.

But the first man to head an all-Scotland police force says doing nothing against the gangland kingpins is not an option.

Instead, he is declaring war and insisting drastic measures must be taken to cut off the cash that funds their lavish lifestyle.

House said yesterday: “If we don’t do something, we are just mugs.”

His proposals would mean sanctions could be applied to the crooks without the need for a trial.

Instead, police intelligence would be presented to a senior judge who would have the power to stop them carrying on the businesses they use as fronts for their crimes.

Police plans to shut down underworld moneymen is 'illegal', claims criminology expert
The crackdown would aim to prevent a repeat of the public row when Glasgow taxi firm Network Private Hire were awarded a £2million NHS contract despite police concerns about their alleged criminal links.

It would also disrupt the activities of those who follow in the footsteps of gangster Russell Stirton, who laundered money through a filling station which sold the cheapest petrol in Scotland.

And it would increase the scope for police to target rogue security firms and drug barons, such as Glasgow crime lords Jamie Daniel and Eddie Lyons.

In the past, police have raised concerns about the involvement of known gangsters, such as convicted gun-runner Paul Ferris, in the security industry. But they have lacked the powers to act.

House said under his proposals, officers would collate testimony of informants and the findings of forensic accountants.

They would also draw on surveillance methods as seen in US drama The Wire.

The police dossier would be presented to an experienced judge, called the Intelligence Commissioner, who would have the power to impose penalties to disrupt the cash flow of Scotland’s most wanted.

House said the pioneering plan would enable his officers to home in on the wealthy crooks who are so adept at avoiding incrimination.

At present, police are powerless in cases where they have significant intelligence against a suspect but no evidence suitable to be presented to a jury.

Just £10.5m of £2bn dirty cash has been seized by Scots police under proceeds of crime
House, who is Strathclyde chief constable and takes over as head of the new all-Scotland force in April, said: “What we would do is we go to somebody, maybe a senior judge, who is the Intelligence Commissioner and we lay all of this intelligence in front of them.

“We say, ‘Look at this guy. We think he is obviously involved in organised crime and obviously making money out of it but we can’t prove it.’

“We can’t go to court but what we can say is, ‘He is running a chain of pubs but we don’t think he is fit to be a licence holder.’

“Or we can say, ‘He runs a couple of taxi companies but we don’t think he should have a licence to do that because we think it is a front for organised crime,’ or, ‘We don’t think he should be allowed to be a director of any business.’

“We could also say we should be able to look at someone’s bank account details regularly.

“If the Intelligence Commissioner is convinced by the police submission, they can stamp an order which would limit the business activities of the suspect.

House acknowledges the audacious proposal will court controversy.

He added: “I am quite sure that people will say, ‘You are infringing civil liberties’.

“I think you have to be proportionate about these things. I am not talking about locking them up. I am talking about a very high level of intelligence being assessed by an independent expert.”

House said the tactic would be a UK first but added: “Why shouldn’t we be ground-breaking? We will be a single, national service. We need to have courage about our convictions and we ought at least to be having a debate about it.”

The strategy is also designed to reassure the public that action can be taken against those who are on the police radar.

House said: “You know who they are and you know how they distance themselves.

“Just because they are experienced and they have learned a bit of trickery, why should they be allowed to get away with it?”

He added that the aim of the proposed crackdown was a simple one.

House said: “We are stopping them cleaning their money.

“They are running taxi companies for two reasons – one is to move the drugs around and the other is that it is a cash business so they are cleaning it.”

The chief wants all dossiers presented to a commissioner to feature five separate pieces of intelligence to ensure that they are credible.

He said: “You have got to be proportionate and it has got to be balanced.

“But I think if you put the right safeguards in place, this is something that should be looked at.

“As long as it is controlled and there is an independent judge that looks at it, a senior person with a lot of
experience who takes a lot of convincing.

“Once they are convinced, are we going to sit back and say we know they did it but there is nothing we can do? That’s not right.”

Crime mapping – which has already established that Scotland is home to 274 separate crime groups made up of 3663 individuals – would be used to help develop the intelligence and identify those offenders who pose the greatest threat to communities.

The Record exposed this in our Dirty Money pullout last month.

The Scottish Government are considering the chief’s proposal.

House said: “If we can be imaginative, if we can be brave and bold about it then we can actually start to target people who think they are untouchable because they have distanced themselves.

“I don’t mind if it gets debated and the public and the politicians decide, ‘We don’t want to do that.’ That’s fine.

“But let’s have the debate and have a serious conversation about it and see the pros and cons and, practically, how we would go about it.”

Daily Record
Author:  Jasbar [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Scots police chief wages war on crime clans
This is precisely the fascist Scotland the SNP are creating. Short circuiting justice is not the answer. This latest wheeze is just as appalling as Tony Blair's scheme to frogmarch miscreants to cash point to pay instant fines.

And with independence it would only get worse.

We don't need cops dictating our justice system. It is NOT their job.

They are there to administer the Law as decided by government. Nothing else, they are supposed to be independent of the people and the Justiciary.

We do not need Senior cops like this latest guru to get political.

But we all really know this is just a new broom trying to make an impact. It is tediously expected.

Now, I have no truck with crime lords and the cancer they pervade. But properly administer Law is the answer to defeat them. Not petulant off-the-hoof instant justice at the whim of a politician or a cop.

#-o
Author:  Skull [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Scots police chief wages war on crime clans
It's a question of where, will it end? In a few years, you might be under surveillance taking your dog for a crap down the local wood or putting rubbish in your neighbours bin. It's a sort of Pre crime Philip K. Dick, Minority Report style of policing. You decide who to watch and when you've gathered enough "evidence" you bypass the courts and go straight to punishment.

Hunter S. Thompson got it right:

“In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity.”

Fear and loathing in Las Vegas.

It would be bloody stupid to give the police or the courts these sort of powers. #-o #-o #-o #-o
Author:  gusmac [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Scots police chief wages war on crime clans
Jasbar wrote:

Now, I have no truck with crime lords and the cancer they pervade. But properly administer Law is the answer to defeat them. Not petulant off-the-hoof instant justice at the whim of a politician or a cop.

#-o


or a senior judge?

Quote:
police intelligence would be presented to a senior judge who would have the power to stop them carrying on the businesses they use as fronts for their crimes
Author:  Skull [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Scots police chief wages war on crime clans
gusmac wrote:
Jasbar wrote:

Now, I have no truck with crime lords and the cancer they pervade. But properly administer Law is the answer to defeat them. Not petulant off-the-hoof instant justice at the whim of a politician or a cop.

#-o


or a senior judge?

Quote:
police intelligence would be presented to a senior judge who would have the power to stop them carrying on the businesses they use as fronts for their crimes


The police can't be trusted with this kind of power, and neither can our judges? If you remove the current checks and balances, you are living in even more of a police state than you are at present. Christ, haven't you learned anything about the system? #-o

Power corrupts... #-o
Author:  gusmac [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Scots police chief wages war on crime clans
Skull wrote:
gusmac wrote:
Jasbar wrote:

Now, I have no truck with crime lords and the cancer they pervade. But properly administer Law is the answer to defeat them. Not petulant off-the-hoof instant justice at the whim of a politician or a cop.

#-o


or a senior judge?

Quote:
police intelligence would be presented to a senior judge who would have the power to stop them carrying on the businesses they use as fronts for their crimes


The police can't be trusted with this kind of power, and neither can our judges? If you remove the current checks and balances, you are living in even more of a police state than you are at present. Christ, haven't you learned anything about the system? #-o

Power corrupts... #-o


So we should just do nothing and wait for your utopian dream to sort everything out? #-o
Author:  Skull [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Scots police chief wages war on crime clans
We have a legal system that's far from perfect, but it's better than what you and this cop are proposing?
Author:  gusmac [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Scots police chief wages war on crime clans
Skull wrote:
We have a legal system that's far from perfect, but it's better than what you and this cop are proposing?


I'm not proposing it, but don't let that fact stop you.
Author:  Jasbar [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Scots police chief wages war on crime clans
Especially a senior judge Gusmac.

The Justiciary are there to do two things.

In solemn procedure, first to make sure the trial proceeds according to the Law, and second to consider the seriousness of the crime after a guilty verdict and hand down an appropriate sentence according to the penalties ascribed by the law of the land.

NOTE It is not the remit of a judge to determine guilt.

In a summary procedure, the Sheriff does ascribe guilt after listening to the case. But any decision can be appealed to a senior Judge and defendants have a right to elect for a trial by his peers if he so chooses. Of course the system is designed to forget to advise you of this right.

We do not need the Justice system compromised by Judges wielding power even wider than their already wide discretion.

Gusmac, you're arguing us into a fascist state. Time to put your brain in gear before its too late and we're all hiding in our cellars while our children are singing patriotic songs about Chairman Salmond and learning to goosestep.
Author:  ALI T [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Scots police chief wages war on crime clans
http://www.martinfrost.ws/
i found some of this very interesting
Author:  captain cab [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Scots police chief wages war on crime clans
ALI T wrote:
http://www.martinfrost.ws/
i found some of this very interesting



why's it now from panama?
Author:  Skull [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Scots police chief wages war on crime clans
captain cab wrote:
ALI T wrote:
http://www.martinfrost.ws/
i found some of this very interesting



why's it now from panama?


I would imagine it's safer from political attack. If someone so much as makes a complaint about material hosted on an ISP, in this country, they shut you down until the offending material is removed. :-|
Author:  Jasbar [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Scots police chief wages war on crime clans
MPs debating the Justice and Security Bill.

There were 16 MPs in the Commons chambers.

This is democracy in action. We get to see 16 MPs crafting the illusion of democracy, when the real decision has already been taken by a couple of suits, and the Whips will see it is delivered.

Last time the council debated whether to end taxi licence restriction, Jim Inch gave each councillor a sheaf of 130 pages of guff explaining why the restriction should be maintained. There was no dissenting argument. There was no debate in council. The deal was a slam dunk.

Presented with all of the guff, councillors didn't even have to feel put upon to read it. They didn't have the time, and knew they didn't need to anyway. Raising their hand in line with the party's wishes was all that was required.

That's a lot of expenses and fees expended on the minimum enery required to raise one's arm.

Democracy doesn't exist in our government system.

It behoves me to add, that Chairman Salmond has had ample opportunity to change things. he could have ordered a root and branch reform of local government.

But he hasn't. And why is that?

Because the establishment doesn't want him to.

And why do they get away with it?

Because our nation is mired in mindless units of production like Gusmac who never question the status quo, and wouldn't even know what questions to ask in the first place.

It's easier to resist change than bring it about.

Especially when the herd are happy to be the shecht on the establishment shoe.
Author:  gusmac [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Scots police chief wages war on crime clans
Jasbar wrote:
MPs debating the Justice and Security Bill.

There were 16 MPs in the Commons chambers.

This is democracy in action. We get to see 16 MPs crafting the illusion of democracy, when the real decision has already been taken by a couple of suits, and the Whips will see it is delivered.

Last time the council debated whether to end taxi licence restriction, Jim Inch gave each councillor a sheaf of 130 pages of guff explaining why the restriction should be maintained. There was no dissenting argument. There was no debate in council. The deal was a slam dunk.

Presented with all of the guff, councillors didn't even have to feel put upon to read it. They didn't have the time, and knew they didn't need to anyway. Raising their hand in line with the party's wishes was all that was required.

That's a lot of expenses and fees expended on the minimum enery required to raise one's arm.

Democracy doesn't exist in our government system.

It behoves me to add, that Chairman Salmond has had ample opportunity to change things. he could have ordered a root and branch reform of local government.

But he hasn't. And why is that?

Because the establishment doesn't want him to.

And why do they get away with it?

Because our nation is mired in mindless units of production like Gusmac who never question the status quo, and wouldn't even know what questions to ask in the first place.

It's easier to resist change than bring it about.

Especially when the herd are happy to be the shecht on the establishment shoe.


You borrowed Gary's soapbox then?
Author:  Jasbar [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Scots police chief wages war on crime clans
gusmac wrote:
Jasbar wrote:
MPs debating the Justice and Security Bill.

There were 16 MPs in the Commons chambers.

This is democracy in action. We get to see 16 MPs crafting the illusion of democracy, when the real decision has already been taken by a couple of suits, and the Whips will see it is delivered.

Last time the council debated whether to end taxi licence restriction, Jim Inch gave each councillor a sheaf of 130 pages of guff explaining why the restriction should be maintained. There was no dissenting argument. There was no debate in council. The deal was a slam dunk.

Presented with all of the guff, councillors didn't even have to feel put upon to read it. They didn't have the time, and knew they didn't need to anyway. Raising their hand in line with the party's wishes was all that was required.

That's a lot of expenses and fees expended on the minimum enery required to raise one's arm.

Democracy doesn't exist in our government system.

It behoves me to add, that Chairman Salmond has had ample opportunity to change things. he could have ordered a root and branch reform of local government.

But he hasn't. And why is that?

Because the establishment doesn't want him to.

And why do they get away with it?

Because our nation is mired in mindless units of production like Gusmac who never question the status quo, and wouldn't even know what questions to ask in the first place.

It's easier to resist change than bring it about.

Especially when the herd are happy to be the shecht on the establishment shoe.


You borrowed Gary's soapbox then?


Aye Gusmac, you prove the old adage is true.

You don't have to be bright to be a cabbie.

:roll:
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