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Cross-border curbs on cabs comes under fire
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Author:  captain cab [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Cross-border curbs on cabs comes under fire
Cross-border curbs on cabs comes under fire



PIONEERING moves by Oldham Council to bring in strict rules to discourage black cabs operating in neighbouring boroughs have been slated by taxi owners.

Next Tuesday’s Licensing Committee will hear officers propose the changes following a number of High Court cases involving the issue.

High Court rulings state that a hackney carriage vehicle licensed by one local authority may be used for pre-booked hirings on behalf of a private hire operator licensed by another local authority.

Licensed

This is currently taking place in Oldham, with black cabs licensed by Rossendale Council undertaking private hire work for operators licensed by Oldham Council.

But the High Court also says that a local authority may refuse to grant a hackney carriage vehicle licence where the applicant “intends” to use the vehicle entirely or predominantly in another borough.

Oldham licensing officers currently have no information as to where a licensed vehicle will be used.

They want to add a clause asking about the “intended use” of a hackney carriage vehicle, with a presumption to refuse an application where it is the intention of the applicant to ply for hire to a “material extent” outside the borough.

Oldham Metropolitan Borough Taxi Owners’ Association says there are more than 50 black cabs licensed in neighbouring boroughs but operating in Oldham. It says if stricter rules are enforced in Oldham but not in neighbouring boroughs, then it only stops Oldham vehicles working outside the borough without eliminating the root cause of the problem.

It said it would support the move only if and when it is introduced nationwide, and it questions why Oldham council is so keen to trailblaze the idea in the North-West.

source: http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news- ... under-fire
Author:  captain cab [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cross-border curbs on cabs comes under fire
Image
Author:  captain cab [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cross-border curbs on cabs comes under fire
http://committees.oldham.gov.uk/documen ... ehicle.pdf
Author:  captain cab [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cross-border curbs on cabs comes under fire
Quote:
Why is Oldham Council so determined to bring these High Court rulings to HC vehicles and apply conditions of 5.2 a, ,b,c & d


Yeah, those damned judges and their silly old decisions ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
Author:  Sussex [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cross-border curbs on cabs comes under fire
captain cab wrote:
They want to add a clause asking about the “intended use” of a hackney carriage vehicle, with a presumption to refuse an application where it is the intention of the applicant to ply for hire to a “material extent” outside the borough.

So they are going to ask a question to solve a problem that they can't solve? ](*,)

And how are they going to enforce this pointless policy? ](*,)
Author:  captain cab [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cross-border curbs on cabs comes under fire
Sussex wrote:
So they are going to ask a question to solve a problem that they can't solve? ](*,)

And how are they going to enforce this pointless policy? ](*,)


As per Shropshire I would guess - they'll refuse applications as advised by the Judge in the Berwick case - I think this council need applauded =D> =D> =D>
Author:  toots [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cross-border curbs on cabs comes under fire
I think this council needs to work with the surrounding boroughs to have the greatest effect of any action they may take.
Author:  grandad [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cross-border curbs on cabs comes under fire
Sussex wrote:
captain cab wrote:
They want to add a clause asking about the “intended use” of a hackney carriage vehicle, with a presumption to refuse an application where it is the intention of the applicant to ply for hire to a “material extent” outside the borough.

So they are going to ask a question to solve a problem that they can't solve? ](*,)

And how are they going to enforce this pointless policy? ](*,)

Is the applicant likely to say that he intends to ply for hire in another borough as this is already illegal?
Author:  Sussex [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cross-border curbs on cabs comes under fire
captain cab wrote:
Sussex wrote:
So they are going to ask a question to solve a problem that they can't solve? ](*,)

And how are they going to enforce this pointless policy? ](*,)


As per Shropshire I would guess - they'll refuse applications as advised by the Judge in the Berwick case - I think this council need applauded =D> =D> =D>

But Oldham taxis aren't the problem, it's taxis from elsewhere working PH there that are.

Therefore this policy will make no difference.
Author:  Sussex [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cross-border curbs on cabs comes under fire
Taken from the proposals;

4.3 In order to assist the Licensing Authority in making a decision on whether to grant an application for a renewal, officers are proposing the following conditions be attached to hackney carriage vehicle proprietor licences:-

a) The proprietor of the hackney carriage vehicle licence shall ensure that an accurate and contemporaneous record is made and maintained either by himself of the driver of the vehicle, of all uses of the vehicle when being used to fulfil prebooked hiring’s on behalf of a private hire operator licensed by another local authority;

b) The accurate and contemporaneous record should include , at a minimum, the following information, and be recorded in a stitch or heat / glue bound book so as to provide a continuous record without breaks between rows:-
(i) date;
(ii) time of first pick up;
(iii) first ‘pick up’ point by location / name / address including house number
(iv) destination point by location / name / address including house number
(v) the name and address of the operator on behalf of which the journey was being undertaken;

c) Each book shall legibly and clearly display the details of the vehicle to which it relates, including the make, model, registration number and vehicle licence number; Page 4 of 19 Licensing\0000666 12th March 2013

d) The record of journeys shall be available for inspection at any time by a police constable or PCSO; and an officer of any local authority who through the course of their normal duties are authorised to inspect the licensed vehicle;
e) Each book, when full, shall be forwarded to the Licensing Section;
f) Where the holder of a hackney carriage proprietor’s licence wishes to maintain a record of use in any other format than set out above, prior approval must be obtained from the Principal Licensing officer.

Now I'm not a great fan of non working hackney owners, especially in restricted areas, but giving them a duty to ensure all bookings from non local operators are recorded isn't right, not reasonable, especially when they aren't the problem.

Is it really fair to take away someone's plate because one of the drivers hasn't recorded a job?

I wish the LC would hurry up, because they couldn't balls it up much more than some of these councils. [-(
Author:  grandad [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cross-border curbs on cabs comes under fire
Sussex wrote:
Taken from the proposals;

[i][b]4.3 In order to assist the Licensing Authority in making a decision on whether to grant an application for a renewal, officers are proposing the following conditions be attached to hackney carriage vehicle proprietor licences:-


What is one of these?
Author:  Chris the Fish [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cross-border curbs on cabs comes under fire
Sussex wrote:
I wish the LC would hurry up, because they couldn't balls it up much more than some of these councils. [-(

Are you taking bets?
Author:  captain cab [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cross-border curbs on cabs comes under fire
I disagree Sussex - some council has to make a stand - Rossendale Council are complete ar*es - I know I've been in correspondence with them - they constantly pass the buck.

Oldham Council need =D> =D> =D>
Author:  Sussex [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cross-border curbs on cabs comes under fire
captain cab wrote:
I disagree Sussex - some council has to make a stand - Rossendale Council are complete ar*es - I know I've been in correspondence with them - they constantly pass the buck.

Oldham Council need =D> =D> =D>

But it's a pointless stand and punishing the good guys.

That doesn't make sense.
Author:  captain cab [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cross-border curbs on cabs comes under fire
Sussex wrote:
But it's a pointless stand and punishing the good guys.

That doesn't make sense.


Punishing them for doing something that they aint actually doing - with a punishment that wont apply unless they do it? :wink:
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