Taxi Driver Online :: View topic - London refers Uber app row to High Court

All this kerfuffle, but the Dereg Bill and or the LC draft will 100% legalise this.

And as TfL are going to the courts for legal clarification, why the need for the demos? :-k

11 Prohibition of taximeters.

(1)No vehicle to which a London PHV licence relates shall be equipped with a taximeter.
(2)If such a vehicle is equipped with a taximeter, the owner of that vehicle is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.
(3)In this section “taximeter” means a device for calculating the fare to be charged in respect of any journey by reference to the distance travelled or time elapsed since the start of the journey (or a combination of both)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/34/section/11

That's about as unclear as recently polished windows

I mentioned before that if I take the mileage from the odometer and use a calculator to multiply this by the rate that I charge per mile, does this constitute a meter?

grandad wrote:

I mentioned before that if I take the mileage from the odometer and use a calculator to multiply this by the rate that I charge per mile, does this constitute a meter?

Clearly not, as it does not calculate the fare by itself, unlike the Uber app on the smartphone, where you press start at the beginning of the journey, press stop at the end and the smartphone displays the fare based on time and distance.

I thought that UBER journeys were paid by card BEFORE the journey started.

grandad wrote:

I thought that UBER journeys were paid by card BEFORE the journey started.

Your enter you card details, when you download the app to your phone.

Whenever you make a journey, and it ends, the card is then automatically charged, and you get e-mailed a receipt.

christopherwk wrote:

grandad wrote:

I thought that UBER journeys were paid by card BEFORE the journey started.

Your enter you card details, when you download the app to your phone.

Whenever you make a journey, and it ends, the card is then automatically charged, and you get e-mailed a receipt.

Right, then i can see the potential problem. Aren't private hire supposed to agree the price before the journey?

It's not always possible to give a price before the start of a journey. I may not know how far it is, what diversions the punter wants to take, waiting time at the bank etc...

roythebus wrote:

It's not always possible to give a price before the start of a journey. I may not know how far it is, what diversions the punter wants to take, waiting time at the bank etc...

That is one of the differences between Hackney and private Hire. With a Hackney you use the meter and everything is charged. private hire fares should be agreed before the journey. The operators should set the fare to allow for any problems.

Author:	captain cab [ Thu May 29, 2014 9:08 am ]
Post subject:	London refers Uber app row to High Court
London refers Uber app row to High Court London's transport authority has announced it does not believe Uber's car service is breaking the law by using an app to determine charges. However, Transport for London added it would invite the High Court to give a binding ruling on the matter "given the level of concern among the trade". The Licensed Taxi Drivers Association (LTDA) has claimed the tech equates to being a taximeter, which private vehicles are not allowed to use. It plans a demonstration on 11 June. "Our protest will unfortunately cause severe congestion and traffic chaos for large parts of central London, although by giving over a month's notice we hope that most people and businesses will be able to make alternative arrangements," LTDA's general secretary, Steve McNamara told the BBC after announcing the move earlier this month. The controversy centres on a smartphone app provided to Uber's drivers - which is separate from the one used by the public - that calculates the journey distance and time taken, and then relays this information to remote computer servers to determine the fee. TfL's decision is based on the fact Uber's kit does not require a physical connection between the device and the vehicle, as is the case with the equipment used by black cabs. "We have carried out the largest compliance operation in our history to ensure that the highest standards are being maintained," said Leon Daniels, TfL's Managing Director of Surface Transport. "On the issue of taximeters, the law is unclear and we have taken a provisional view. We will be asking the High Court to provide a binding ruling. "This is the sensible approach, and we hope that London's taxi drivers and private hire drivers and operators will work with us to bring clarity on this issue." source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27617079

Author:	Sussex [ Thu May 29, 2014 10:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: London refers Uber app row to High Court
All this kerfuffle, but the Dereg Bill and or the LC draft will 100% legalise this. And as TfL are going to the courts for legal clarification, why the need for the demos?

Author:	trotskys twin [ Thu May 29, 2014 11:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: London refers Uber app row to High Court
Sussex wrote: All this kerfuffle, but the Dereg Bill and or the LC draft will 100% legalise this. And as TfL are going to the courts for legal clarification, why the need for the demos? BECAUSE THEY TRUST THE COURTS FFS WHAT A QUESTION

Author:	silvercab [ Fri May 30, 2014 1:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: London refers Uber app row to High Court
11 Prohibition of taximeters. (1)No vehicle to which a London PHV licence relates shall be equipped with a taximeter. (2)If such a vehicle is equipped with a taximeter, the owner of that vehicle is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale. (3)In this section “taximeter” means a device for calculating the fare to be charged in respect of any journey by reference to the distance travelled or time elapsed since the start of the journey (or a combination of both) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/34/section/11 That's about as unclear as recently polished windows

Author:	grandad [ Fri May 30, 2014 6:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: London refers Uber app row to High Court
silvercab wrote: 11 Prohibition of taximeters. (1)No vehicle to which a London PHV licence relates shall be equipped with a taximeter. (2)If such a vehicle is equipped with a taximeter, the owner of that vehicle is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale. (3)In this section “taximeter” means a device for calculating the fare to be charged in respect of any journey by reference to the distance travelled or time elapsed since the start of the journey (or a combination of both) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/34/section/11 That's about as unclear as recently polished windows I mentioned before that if I take the mileage from the odometer and use a calculator to multiply this by the rate that I charge per mile, does this constitute a meter?

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Author:	silvercab [ Fri May 30, 2014 7:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: London refers Uber app row to High Court
grandad wrote: I mentioned before that if I take the mileage from the odometer and use a calculator to multiply this by the rate that I charge per mile, does this constitute a meter? Clearly not, as it does not calculate the fare by itself, unlike the Uber app on the smartphone, where you press start at the beginning of the journey, press stop at the end and the smartphone displays the fare based on time and distance.

Author:	roythebus [ Fri May 30, 2014 7:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: London refers Uber app row to High Court
But is the VEHICLE equipped with the smartphone or the driver? It may be for the vehicle "to be equipped" it has to be fixed in the vehicle.

Author:	grandad [ Fri May 30, 2014 8:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: London refers Uber app row to High Court
silvercab wrote: grandad wrote: I mentioned before that if I take the mileage from the odometer and use a calculator to multiply this by the rate that I charge per mile, does this constitute a meter? Clearly not, as it does not calculate the fare by itself, unlike the Uber app on the smartphone, where you press start at the beginning of the journey, press stop at the end and the smartphone displays the fare based on time and distance. I thought that UBER journeys were paid by card BEFORE the journey started.

Author:	Sussex [ Fri May 30, 2014 8:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: London refers Uber app row to High Court
silvercab wrote: 11 Prohibition of taximeters. (1)No vehicle to which a London PHV licence relates shall be equipped with a taximeter. (2)If such a vehicle is equipped with a taximeter, the owner of that vehicle is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale. (3)In this section “taximeter” means a device for calculating the fare to be charged in respect of any journey by reference to the distance travelled or time elapsed since the start of the journey (or a combination of both) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/34/section/11 That's about as unclear as recently polished windows I beg to differ. The taximeter is not attached/equipped to the vehicle.

Author:	christopherwk [ Fri May 30, 2014 11:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: London refers Uber app row to High Court
grandad wrote: I thought that UBER journeys were paid by card BEFORE the journey started. Your enter you card details, when you download the app to your phone. Whenever you make a journey, and it ends, the card is then automatically charged, and you get e-mailed a receipt.

Author:	grandad [ Fri May 30, 2014 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: London refers Uber app row to High Court
christopherwk wrote: grandad wrote: I thought that UBER journeys were paid by card BEFORE the journey started. Your enter you card details, when you download the app to your phone. Whenever you make a journey, and it ends, the card is then automatically charged, and you get e-mailed a receipt. Right, then i can see the potential problem. Aren't private hire supposed to agree the price before the journey?

Author:	roythebus [ Fri May 30, 2014 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: London refers Uber app row to High Court
grandad wrote: christopherwk wrote: grandad wrote: I thought that UBER journeys were paid by card BEFORE the journey started. Your enter you card details, when you download the app to your phone. Whenever you make a journey, and it ends, the card is then automatically charged, and you get e-mailed a receipt. Right, then i can see the potential problem. Aren't private hire supposed to agree the price before the journey? It's not always possible to give a price before the start of a journey. I may not know how far it is, what diversions the punter wants to take, waiting time at the bank etc...

Author:	trotskys twin [ Fri May 30, 2014 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: London refers Uber app row to High Court
I think UBER is ace bring it on fekk em all

Author:	grandad [ Fri May 30, 2014 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: London refers Uber app row to High Court
roythebus wrote: It's not always possible to give a price before the start of a journey. I may not know how far it is, what diversions the punter wants to take, waiting time at the bank etc... That is one of the differences between Hackney and private Hire. With a Hackney you use the meter and everything is charged. private hire fares should be agreed before the journey. The operators should set the fare to allow for any problems.

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Author:	christopherwk [ Fri May 30, 2014 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: London refers Uber app row to High Court
grandad wrote: roythebus wrote: It's not always possible to give a price before the start of a journey. I may not know how far it is, what diversions the punter wants to take, waiting time at the bank etc... That is one of the differences between Hackney and private Hire. With a Hackney you use the meter and everything is charged. private hire fares should be agreed before the journey. The operators should set the fare to allow for any problems. You can set the basic fare, but you can't foresee additional waiting time at pick up, or the passenger decide to divert and pick up/drop off their mates along the journey. With Uber, you can ask for an estimate (which is given as a range i.e. £12-£15 - and this isn't binding anyway), when requesting a car, and it says "fares may vary due to traffic, weather and other factors." I've used Uber 3 times for the same journey, and the difference in those three fares was only £1 (they round the fares down to the nearest £1).