Taxi Driver Online

page 6 Taxitalk February 2005

For those of you with access to the internet, there is a sire called Taxi Driver Online. which is essentially a forum for taxi drivers to discuss the topicswe all bang on about. However the editorial policy is not exactly neutral, especially when it comes to the subject of delimitation, which can only be described as vehemently pro, Now Ive been badged in two authorities and delimitation follows me around like a bad smell, in fact if your area is restricted and you hear that Im doing "the knowledge" sell up!

I cannot think of another issue that divides the trade than delimitation, and its a bitter divide with very few "dont know"feelings between the rival factions veer between animousity and sheer hate (I kid you not, Ive been there twice actually. It can be described as tribal, and the two tribes are the Wannaplate and the Gorraplate, now the Gorraplates believe that an issue of just one platewill set off a chain reaction that will destroy thier buisness, thier way of lifeand they will eventually have to auction the kids on e-bay. The Wannaplates believe that the world, his mother and his cousain second time removed should have a plate on demand. and the people who dissagree are luddites/ facists. hyenas antichrists oppressors of the workers and probably all these things combined,

But in my experience, when the great day arives and the "Wanaba" finaly getsto change his name to a "Gorra" in a civil ceromony at the town hall(ah. it was a lovely day) not only do they change the name but the attitude to delimitation, comes as part of the package! (I think itscalled the ex sixty a daya day man syndrome) Its not hypocracy just human nature you understand? So Taxi Driver Online youll forgive me for being somewhat cynical about your passionatly held views, Iveeeeee been there, heard em seen em change

gocha fown to a tea dusty

thank you Kirklees Licensing for giving me a copy and giving me a good laugh!

I believe that was from a recent member on here who was going to read http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/reality.htm and report back. I then heard that he was going to point out the faults of said document in his column.

It appears that he either hasn't found any faults, or isn't prepared to debate them, either on here or through Taxi'talk'.

Shame really, because I believe the author of M&R was very much looking forward to a good old-fashioned ding-dong.

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IDFIMH

The author of M and R is in my opinion a good old - fashioned ding-dong. by the way derek did read it ,I am sure in due course he will tell you his view of it.GOOD LAD IS DEREK, fights for the trade out in the open not like some,who only whisper in the shadows. but then again some mothers do have then..........love mr T

So TDO isn't neutral. I can't really see why it was thought necessary to point this out, since it's fairly obvious to anyone reading the articles, and in any case none of the trade press is neutral. If the article had just stated the fact that the editorial policy is pro-delimitation, and even added that it was vehemently so then that would have been fine, but the allusion seems to be that the site should be neutral, which is unnecessary and hypocritical I would say.

As for the rest of the article, in summary it seems to be saying:

- restricted numbers are divisive;
- once plates have been awarded then the recipients often 'go native'.

We couldn't disagree with either claim, and both these aspects have been raised in articles published on this site.

An alternative spin on the scenario described could be:

- the original plate holder group think that everyone should be given a plate on demand;

- they then manage to persuade government to impose a moratorium on new plates;

- those afforded preferential treatment don't want to give that up, while those equally qualified but excluded from the plate holder group clearly want 'in';

- once 'in' they act as the original plate holder group did.

So essentially the article is saying that most people are basically the same and self-interested. Again we wouldn't disagree with that, but how does this induce the writer's cynicism about our views on restricted numbers?

It would be difficult to change the self-interested aspect of human nature, and this is hardly confined to the taxi trade.

But the difference seems to be that regulators seem more inclined to cave into the self-interest of incumbent plate holders as compared to other business sectors.

The answer is of course to dump restricted numbers for good.

The author is right to be cynical, because self-interest is not confined to the original plate holder group who manged to get numbers restricted, but until this site argues for re-restriction then surely his cynicism is misplaced in relation to TDO?

But TDO will never argue of restricted numbers, as a point of principle, but in any case this would be as plausible as Margaret Thatcher espousing socialism

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Who is the author Yorkie, and is there any more?

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

I wouldn't put yourself down like that Mr T - we don't mind you posting anonymously on here

By the way, why am I not surprised that you're an admirer of Mr Cummins

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

You and your assumptions,you don't half make me laugh.
mr T........

I actually think Derek is wrong, it would follow if Derek is wrong, then TDO you are wrong too.


I was never under any impression that the site had a policy at all.

It is merely a forum to express views, some views differ, particularly on the issue of plates / delimitation / limitation.

When the time comes where everyone is in agreement that ether delimitation / limitation is correct, then that naturally will be the time when the policy is decided. Until such time, the site policy is in my view fair to the views expressed.

Regards

Captain cab[/quote]

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Derek Cummins Assistant Editor, acting as editor
I have skimmed through but can see no more, have to wait for March issue

do you think it would be a good idea to send a photo?

I don’t know if Mr Cummings is being vehemently anti de restriction or just having a pop at a website that can’t be manipulated or brainwashed into towing the minority vested interest line.

We had a member called deecee arrive on the scene a short time ago, who said “he specifically came on here because someone was slagging off Mark Royden of the Wirral”. When asked to whom and what he was referring? He didn’t have an answer. That is typical of certain people who have come on this site and made unfounded statements, yet when asked to produce the goods they dismally fail. Mr deecee’s contribution was minimal but he was afforded every courtesy while he was here, it’s a pity he didn’t stay longer, he may have learnt something?



Some might be wondering how many free plates you got from these two delimited authorities? Or did you put yourself above accepting a free plate?



That is fact in a great many cases, no one would really argue with that, excepting the Tribal reference but then again, I don’t see any arm twisting going on that makes a person part with 40 or 50 grand, do you? Parting with large amounts of money to gain entry into a decidedly insecure restrictive practice that you have no control over, is taking a huge Gamble is it not?

What always gets lost in these debates over restricted numbers, is the fact that all plates were issued free at one stage. According to Mr Conyon of the NTA, when asked by Charles Efford the ex London Cabby if there was any evidence that free plates were being sold soon after being issued, he said “I have heard of a very, very small number and if you take into account the whole of the Taxi industry you are talking about 0.0000000 per cent”. So from that we can assume the majority of plates in England and Wales are still in the hands of the original owners. Perhaps a cynic might say that those owners, who got a plate for free, couldn’t really complain if the likes of Mr Sussex wanted one too?



I can say without fear or favour from my experience in the regulated Taxi trade that your description in the above paragraph is more fitting to the Gorraplates than the Wannaplates. I can show you reams of hysterical headlines, reports and court cases that are testament to the vehement behaviour of those who want to restrict plates to no one but themselves. You have a fine example in your own backyard in Mr. Mark Royden, Mr. Free plate himself. I suspect it is he you are alluding to in your next paragraph so lets not tarry, we’ll move on down a little shall we?





You don’t realise it but you have just described Mr Royden right down to a T. Perhaps Mr Royden should have consulted you before he toddled off to Court. You could have advised him what a hypocrite he was or perhaps you could have wished him good luck and sent him on his merry way with the words “its only human nature” ringing in his ears?

I suspect there are lots of Wannabes around and you are probably right that once they have got a plate, they don’t want anyone else to have one. At one time we had over 1200 wannabes here in Manchester but since 1986 over 400 Wannabes have become in your words Gorraplates. The fact remains that several of those 400 and odd Wannabes were and still are prominent members of the Manchester Taxi trade. Those same people have worn both your hats and now they are Gorraplates, they don’t want anyone else to be a Gorraplate.

I suspect if it wasn’t for Manchester City councils “insistence” that at least twenty plates be issued each year those Gorraplates might still be Wannaplates.

Just as an aside, there are six plates that I know off up for sale at 50 grand a plate, one was even advertised in the Manchester evening news although it never gave the plate price but several of the others do. It won’t surprise anyone to know that all six plates for sale are ones that have been issued free since 1994, which I’m afraid casts a little doubt on the statement made by our man at the Transport Select Committee hearing.

It would appear that statistics and recent events are not on the side of the Gorraplates. Perhaps it hasn’t escaped Mr. Cummings attention that there are only 117 authorities that still restrict numbers, which amounts to 34.1%. That leaves 226 authorities and 65.9% who do not restrict numbers. Perhaps someone should get their head out of the sand and look at the wider picture. The Taxi trade shouldn’t be fighting each other, there are far bigger issues at stake.

It was noticeable that someone at Taxitalk finally produced an article on Taxibus. I have no doubt that it was this site through its many discussions over a long period of time that brought the status of Taxibus to the attention of Taxitalk. Most items that appear in Taxi magazines have been highlighted and discussed in this forum long before they ever get published.



One would hope your magazine would give TDO the right to reply seeing as how you stereotyped this site.

On a final note, you stated “by your experience”. One wonders, by what experience you are to be judged? Shall it be as a scribe or as a Taxi driver, or both? I shall leave others to contemplate whether your experience is self-indulgent or warrants the respect you no doubt desire.

Best Wishes


JD

I suppose the site, offically, doesn't really have a policy on anything. But members on here find it a lot easier to point out the flaws in taxi quotas, than defend them.

If there is a policy on quotas, then perhaps it should be 'that quotas are a thing of the past, so let's now put all our energy into sorting out vehicle and driver standards'.

Alex

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ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ

Simply the best taxi forum in the whole wide world. www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Is this not a contradiction from the administration here.

As far as I'm concerned TDO's post is more accurate Alex.

People shouldn't really come on here for 5 minutes and then claim to know whats going on.

There needs to be an acceptance that people will argue their point of view if they believe they are right, on a pro-derestriction site (as this clearly is) you have to expect that anti-derestriction people or groups will try to discredit what is said.

Derestriction doesn't deliver fairness, it delivers uncertainty and although people are willing to initially invest there is little or no continued investment. The pro-derestriction group aren't even interested in improving public services, as they seem intent on doing what current HC drivers are doing as they believe it is their right to do so, they even believe that their opinions are endorsed by the OFT and DfT, even though the purpose of their intervention was to increase public services.

This post, like many of my others will be disected and I will be misquoted, but thats because these people don't have any real answers so just want to see the doors opened, as it is far easier to do that than it is to find real solutions to the problems our customers encounter.

B. Lucky

Not at all, as I said offically this site doesn't have a policy on anything. Unless of course you can point one out for me.

The fact is that most members, who have offered an opinion, seem to be against taxi quotas. This is evidence of sound judgement, not a site's policy.

Alex

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ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ

Simply the best taxi forum in the whole wide world. www.taxi-driver.co.uk

I think its a bit disingenious to suggest "the site" has a particular policy. "The site" consists of those who post. As all are free to post their views (and in all the time I have been on line, no one has ever censored anything I wrote)(Ps. Apart from the story I picked up from a punter about Uncle Sussex and his extracuricular activities in ladies underwear), then, as in fact is the case, the site contains views from all sides in the argument.

I mean, the site is so single tracked that we have, for example: never seen any form of disagreement between Stewart and Yorkie. Never seen Tom Thumb castigate those whom should know better. Never seen anyone actually disagree with Dusty. ....

And, of course, the top posting was never made, and this string does not exist...

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There is Significant Unmet Demand for my Opinion.