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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:25 pm 
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Competition and Markets Authority says proposals from Transport for London would reduce choice and raise prices


The competition watchdog has attacked Transport for London's proposed crackdown on Uber, warning that it could result in less choice, higher prices and a worse service.

The proposals would impose regulation that excessively and unnecessarily weakens competition

"We are concerned that some of the proposals on which TfL is consulting... would impose regulation that excessively and unnecessarily weakens competition, to the overall detriment of users of taxi and private hire services in London," the Competition and Markets Authority said.

The CMA laid into a series of regulations put forward by TfL in September, which Uber has warned could run it off the road, and that almost 200,000 people have signed a petition opposing.

The proposals include a mandatory five-minute wait between ordering a journey and it beginning, a requirement to be able to book a ride a week in advance, and an assessment of drivers' knowledge of London.

Although TfL's proposals are for all private-hire vehicle (known as minicab) operators, they are widely seen as an attempt to protect existing operators and the taxi industry from Uber. The American company allows users to order cars with a smartphone app and pay with a credit card, and its cheaper service has been embraced by Londoners since it launched in 2012, while launching widespread protests from the taxi community.

On Wednesday, the CMA attacked TfL's proposals on a point-by-point basis in an eight-page response, saying: "We are concerned that the proposed changes could lead to services of a lower quality and/or higher prices for consumers.

Any measures that restrict the choices available to consumers should be minimised

"The CMA therefore believes that TfL should take care to avoid creating or extending regulatory divergence between taxis and [private-hire vehicles], and between various types of PHV business model, as this is liable to distort competition. Above all, regulation should not favour certain groups or business models over others and any measures that restrict the choices available to consumers should be minimised."

It raised the prospect of a broader review into the current "two-tier" system of regulation of taxis and minicabs that has existed since 2001.

It also said:

TfL had not "set out the evidence base supporting why a 5-minute interval would be appropriate", and that a similar rule the French government tried to introduce had been struck down by the country's constitutional court

Proposals to require approval for operators to change business model would "reduce incentives for innovation"

Requirements to accept bookings a week in advance would "place undue burdens on some providers, leading to increased costs for PHVs and... could raise barriers to entry"

Plans to ban displaying available vehicles in an app had no evidence "that the proposal meets any genuine public interest [and] its main purpose appears to be maintaining the two-tier system"

A test of drivers' geography would be "not appropriate - particularly given that satellite navigation is widely used by PHV drivers"

The CMA concluded: "We do not think that raising the level of regulation on PHVs is likely to benefit consumers. On the contrary, we think it will harm them by reducing innovation and choice and potentially reducing opportunities for prices to be driven down.

"Given that technological innovation now allows consumers to book PHVs for near-immediate use, the CMA believes that there would be value in a broader review of whether maintaining two different tiers – including a high level of regulation on taxis – continues to serve consumers in light of recent changes to the market."

Uber has 1.2 million users in London and more than 20,000 drivers, and says it offers much-cheaper rides than black cabs. This week, it announced that a ridesharing service, UberPool, would launch on Friday, offering a 25pc discount to its current rates.

Garrett Emmerson, TfL’s chief operating officer for surface transport, said: “London has always been at the forefront of innovation and we have clearly seen a dramatic change in technology in recent years.

"We’re fully supportive of new technology and business models that widen choice for Londoners, and it is precisely why we are taking these steps to update regulations that were written in 1998. These are proposals to adapt to a very different context to when these regulations were written, and we are committed to hearing all views on the range of potential changes.”

source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/u ... ondon.html


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:23 pm 
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Their right its the established sh!t trying to prevent competition :evil: :evil:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:25 pm 
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trotskys twin wrote:
Their right its the established sh!t trying to prevent competition :evil: :evil:


So what happens when uber has destroyed all the competition and is the only operator left in the market?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:43 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
trotskys twin wrote:
Their right its the established sh!t trying to prevent competition :evil: :evil:


So what happens when uber has destroyed all the competition and is the only operator left in the market?

I'm more confident than ever that wont be the case.

Seeing a similar service thrive elsewhere I'm now of the opinion we have all fell for the Uber myth.

Once existing or new operators match Uber's technology, or get as near as dam it, then those operators and the drivers on their circuits have nothing to fear.

If anything I can see Uber imploding when their income doesn't match their stock market valuation.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:48 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
captain cab wrote:
trotskys twin wrote:
Their right its the established sh!t trying to prevent competition :evil: :evil:


So what happens when uber has destroyed all the competition and is the only operator left in the market?

I'm more confident than ever that wont be the case.

Seeing a similar service thrive elsewhere I'm now of the opinion we have all fell for the Uber myth.

Once existing or new operators match Uber's technology, or get as near as dam it, then those operators and the drivers on their circuits have nothing to fear.

If anything I can see Uber imploding when their income doesn't match their stock market valuation.



As do I.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:04 am 
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I've seen much the same in the bus industry since deregulation in the 1980's. We had hundreds of small and medium bus companies, we're now down to 5 big groups who have swallowed up any sort of competition, leaving very few medium and small operators of registered bus services across the nation.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:15 am 
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captain cab wrote:
trotskys twin wrote:
Their right its the established sh!t trying to prevent competition :evil: :evil:


So what happens when uber has destroyed all the competition and is the only operator left in the market?


Prices will go...
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Ballistic.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:41 am 
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roythebus wrote:
I've seen much the same in the bus industry since deregulation in the 1980's. We had hundreds of small and medium bus companies, we're now down to 5 big groups who have swallowed up any sort of competition, leaving very few medium and small operators of registered bus services across the nation.



happened round our way a local bus company tried to compete with stagecoach stagecoach halved fares on competing routes until the local company went bust then stagecoach upped the rates to 50% above previous levels.

Uber will do the same huge sums of money have been put into Uber and they have the financial muscle to undercut the market until the competition gives up and leaves them as the dominant if not the only company and size matters people always prefer to use a big company so uber will then be able to generate the large returns on investment their backers will expect. Free markets if not carefully regulated lead to monopolistic positions and are bad for consumers in the long term

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:31 am 
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roythebus wrote:
I've seen much the same in the bus industry since deregulation in the 1980's.

The big difference is that the vast majority of drivers are self-employed.

Also the trade has always been deregulated (ignore taxi quotas for a mo) in terms of entry, in other words the big bang for the buses in the 80s happened a 100+ previous to our trade.

Yet, even taking in account Uber and the likes of Addy Lee and Delta, the trade is split into thousands of smaller companies, and tens of thousands of one man bands.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:08 pm 
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But if Uber take 50,60,70 or 80% of the market then all these people will be out of business.

Uber are trying to do to the taxi trade what Tescos and sainsburys etc did to the Off licence trade the green grocers the butchers the fishmongers etc.

How many independent ones of those are there ? They were forced out of business

In 10 years time we might all have to work for Uber or Addy lee or Delta who will effectively corner the market by undercutting everyone and forcing their "partners" to work for silly prices and the only way to avoid that is to ensure the big players Can't dominate and crush all opposition

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:16 pm 
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edders23 wrote:
In 10 years time we might all have to work for Uber or Addy lee or Delta who will effectively corner the market by undercutting everyone and forcing their "partners" to work for silly prices and the only way to avoid that is to ensure the big players Can't dominate and crush all opposition
In ten years time after the minimum wage has exceeded £9 per hour they might find they have no drivers anyway.
I barely hit minimum wage now, once it rises to £9ph I'm not going to be driving a cab, I might as well get some poxy bottom of the ladder job and make min wage plus all the perks of paid employment - unless fares increase substantially.

Drive a cab for £7 per hour,
Drive for Uber at £?? per hour,
Do any other crappy job for a guaranteed £9 per hour (plus paid holidays, pension, sick pay) :idea: :?:


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:28 pm 
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The bigger they are the harder they fall .........................UBER wouid be easy meat if they controlled the industry ! :D


I would love to see it one big bumdle and their fekked =D> =D> =D>

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:50 pm 
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edders23 wrote:
But if Uber take 50,60,70 or 80% of the market then all these people will be out of business.

There is no secret supply of drivers (outside of London) that can be Uberised.

Uber must gain drivers from the existing pool, and if the work is poorly priced then those drivers will leave.

Then the Uber punters who think they got a deal in the past, will find they are paying surge prices.

But let's assess what the cab market is, or the booked market.

Do Uber do contract work i.e. schools/social services/hospital? No.

Do they do pre-booked work? No.

Do all of your punters have smart phones? I doubt it.

Do all of your punters have credit cards? I doubt it.

My point is that Uber's current business model ignores significant chunks of our trade. Now that might change, but I'm not sure Uber want to.

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