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 Post subject: Re: 70 page document
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:43 pm 
Roselyn wrote:
Where can I get a copy of this 70 page document which this site has produced?


www.taxi-driver.co.uk


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:11 pm 
Kenny MacAskill has never said the things that "guest" attributes to him. Talk about myth making!
In big cities like Edinburgh the knowledge test must be passed. It takes a great deal of time and effort to pass the Edinburgh test. It is a huge commitment and anyone passing the test has made a big personal investment. Men who pass the test tend to stay in the black cab business for many years. These drivers tend to recognise each other after a while especially the ones working off a radio , which is most of the Edinburgh fleet. Sex offenders who prey on strangers tend to be opportunists and this environment does not attract them.
Edinburgh PHCs are driven by men who pass no test but they can only pick up when instructed over their radios.Sex offenders tend not to find this environment attractive either. But PHC drivers in Edinburgh tend not to be in the job long or at least work more erratically. They tend not to know each other though that in itself should not be a problem. But if the culture changes,and PHCs picking up illegally becomes more common ,as will happen if they are externally plated, then such opportunists will be more attracted to these jobs. I don`t want my daughters put at risk because some people want , for their own ends, to change a system which is working reasonably well at the moment.
I also oppose your de-limitation because I am not convinced that a free for all would eventually find its own level. Only the cowboys and crooks would gain. I note that there have been no developed arguments on this site to dissuade me. Let`s hear them listed!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:23 pm 
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I also oppose your de-limitation because I am not convinced that a free for all would eventually find its own level. Only the cowboys and crooks would gain. I note that there have been no developed arguments on this site to dissuade me. Let`s hear them listed!

Develop your argument that only cowboys and crooks will gain in a delimited system? I would reason that they are going to find it harder to gain in an open market.

Arguments for letting the market find its own level? Tesco/Sainsburys/Morrisons
Pubs/Nightclubs/Bars
Marks&Sparks/Next/BHS

The OFT put forward the argument, with admittedly very weak supportive evidence, that by de-limiting the number of PH drops equal to the Hacks increasing. Those of use who regard PH/Hack as one industry on two playing fields would probably claim we would expect such a finding.

Makes me wonder why PH Operators are not against the OFT report, because it could mean them losing drivers.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:57 am 
Roselyn wrote:
Kenny MacAskill has never said the things that "guest" attributes to him. Talk about myth making!
In big cities like Edinburgh the knowledge test must be passed. It takes a great deal of time and effort to pass the Edinburgh test. It is a huge commitment and anyone passing the test has made a big personal investment. Men who pass the test tend to stay in the black cab business for many years. These drivers tend to recognise each other after a while especially the ones working off a radio , which is most of the Edinburgh fleet. Sex offenders who prey on strangers tend to be opportunists and this environment does not attract them.
Edinburgh PHCs are driven by men who pass no test but they can only pick up when instructed over their radios.Sex offenders tend not to find this environment attractive either. But PHC drivers in Edinburgh tend not to be in the job long or at least work more erratically. They tend not to know each other though that in itself should not be a problem. But if the culture changes,and PHCs picking up illegally becomes more common ,as will happen if they are externally plated, then such opportunists will be more attracted to these jobs. I don`t want my daughters put at risk because some people want , for their own ends, to change a system which is working reasonably well at the moment.
I also oppose your de-limitation because I am not convinced that a free for all would eventually find its own level. Only the cowboys and crooks would gain. I note that there have been no developed arguments on this site to dissuade me. Let`s hear them listed!


This is from the Edinburgh Evening News 03/01/04

Furthermore, some of the new intake are not the sort of you want. In Dublin it led to a marked increase in rapes and sexual assaults. In Edinburgh at present these problems are thankfully rare.

FINALLY a loosening of regulations will make it easier for money launderers and drug traffickers to enter the industry. A de-regulated system offers a golden opportunity for organised crime.
With ready cash and ample muscle, they can move into the traffic jungle. Honest hard-working folk are replaced by rogues. That is thankfully something we have avoided in the taxi trade in this city. However de-regulation could see us head the way of the private hire trade in parts of the west of Scotland.

Now who's myth making :? you see he has made the same play on words as you have "de-regulated" now you tell me where about in the OFT report does it mention de-regulating the trade.
"Furthermore, some of the new intake are not the sort of you want. In Dublin it led to a marked increase in rapes and sexual assaults. In Edinburgh at present these problems are thankfully rare." so you see they want to deny "some of the new intake" the chance of regular honest self employment, the part from the SNP web site states that everyone should be able have their potential freed so that our Country's poor economic performance (which they go to great pains to blame on everyone else) can match that of our competitors,so it comes as a suprise that on the one hand they claim they can transform Scotland by freeing our potential and then tell us that we may not be the sort you want, therefore stopping people starting and running thier own business :? although if the market is limited it's fine for some of the new intake to drive someone else's vehicle.
Once again "sex offenders"I can only say I am baffled by your arguments on this, "These drivers tend to recognise each other after a while especially the ones working off a radio , which is most of the Edinburgh fleet" sex offenders who pray on strangers tend to be opportunists and this environment does not attract them, and then go on to say that the PHC is not an attractive environment either :? "They tend not to know each other though that in itself should not be a problem." well why would not knowing someone turn someone into afore mentioned rapist.
"I don`t want my daughters put at risk because some people want , for their own ends, to change a system which is working reasonably well at the moment." simple solution tell her to only ever use black cabs!
I notice that you say the system is working reasonably well, I think your arguments lend some credence to having a single tier system.
"I note that there have been no developed arguments on this site to dissuade me. Let`s hear them listed" have you actually read any of the site? have you read the myth and reality report,but lets be quite clear about the rape claim, your daughters will be at far greater risk wandering the streets than they would ever be in a Licensed vehicle, I believe that in 90% of rape cases the rapist is known to the victim, the chances of a stranger raping someone is still thankfully rare, I also think if you look at the figures it is more likely you would have a young male attacked by other young male/s and I think males are just as entitled not to be harmed by any kind of abuse,or are we less valued in your eyes,is having a son harmed diffrent from having your daughter harmed.


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 Post subject: Re: De limitation
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:16 am 
TDO wrote:
Roselyn wrote:
Where does the system run better than in Edinburgh? I know taxi owners and drivers from all over Britain. They are all strong on complaining but light on thoughtful solutions. This is a good site but you have to admit that it throws up more questions than reasoned answers.


Hmm...this site just produced a 70-page document demonstrating the nonsense of the arguments of Mr MacAskill and the others in the Edinburgh taxi plate cartel.

Then you come on spouting the same nonsense as Mr MacAskill, ignore the document and claim that the site throws up more questions than reasoned answers - you could perhaps say that about the Scottish Executive's response to the OFT, but not this site.

You are correct about the need for tough regulation, but to link criminality in the trade to de-restriction of numbers is just scaremongering a la Mr MacAskill.


I have seen a copy of this doccument, I got it from a political party for my comments, it had a name as authour, and an address,

but you would have to kill me to get it!

now TDO, This site did not write it or vote on it.

it is a doccument that you can be proud of, and I think its a great alternative view, but its not TDOs. surely?


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 Post subject: Re: reply to Sussex man
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:26 am 
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Railway child wrote:
Sussex
Your argument elludes me here, surly with delimitation, and others here note - not deregulation, if you have a badge - you have your own car. Now I don't, obviously know what the situation is elsewhere, but to pay my overheads and earn a wage I have to work 60+ hours a week and if there were no 'Journymen' drivers about, which there are few of here, no one could afford a WAV, because my 60+ hours are to pay for an £11000 mpv not a £30000 cab.


I'm not too sure running a taxi is a sound business, if you have to rely on others to pay your way.

What happens when the others find employment elsewhere?

If you have to buy a £30,000 cab, then you will have to either buy one or go PH, but I didn't bring in the DDA. That battle is for another day.

But my point about jockeys, is why should they be treated differently by the council than owners?

If they wish to stay jockeys, good luck to them. But if they wish to run their own vehicles, then why not?

But if as you say, running your own vehicle is un-economical, then surely your local trade has nothing to fear. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: De limitation
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:39 am 
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Yorkie wrote:
I have seen a copy of this document, I got it from a political party for my comments, it had a name as author, and an address,

but you would have to kill me to get it!

now TDO, This site did not write it or vote on it.

it is a document that you can be proud of, and I think its a great alternative view, but its not TDO's. surely?


If you are talking about the 70 page M&R Mr Yorkie, then I can assure you it was written 100% by those behind TDO.

I'm surprised you have received an address, because I sent all the e-mails out to the powers that be, and the only address was www.taxi-driver.co.uk and the only contact details were info@taxi-driver.co.uk

But I'm well pleased that it has reached it target audience, yes even you. :wink:

Alex

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Simply the best taxi forum in the whole wide world. www.taxi-driver.co.uk


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:26 am 
I'm not too sure running a taxi is a sound business, if you have to rely on others to pay your way.

What happens when the others find employment elsewhere?


this is what buisness is about,


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:10 am 
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scot wrote:
this is what business is about,


My point was Scot, that's it's a [edited by admin] poor business plan, that says that a one man business must have someone else paying you half your income, in a trade as fluid as ours.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:05 am 
Sussex wrote:
scot wrote:
this is what business is about,


My point was Scot, that's it's a [edited by admin] poor business plan, that says that a one man business must have someone else paying you half your income, in a trade as fluid as ours.


Sussex you are miles off beam pal, all buisness plans have somebody else paying the income, where the hell are you comming from?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:06 pm 
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So you go to the bank manager and ask for, say £20,000 for an E7.

He looks at your books and says that really you can't afford it on your own. So you say "no problem I have a journeyman". He then asks what happens if that journeyman leaves?

Do you think he will accept the statement, 'that everything's fine because Mr Yorkie says it doesn't matter'? :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:55 pm 
Sussex wrote:
So you go to the bank manager and ask for, say £20,000 for an E7.

He looks at your books and says that really you can't afford it on your own. So you say "no problem I have a journeyman". He then asks what happens if that journeyman leaves?

Do you think he will accept the statement, 'that everything's fine because Mr Yorkie says it doesn't matter'? :?



Yes I think there is a good chance he may accept!

gods sake bus companies borrow and they lose drivers daily.

a single owner with a single cab need not worry.

you dont know a lot abot Hackneys do you?

how do you think the premiums are raised?

Yorkie


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:33 am 
Your right ,Yorkie. The people on this site have no idea about the black cab business. Oh to be able to afford to single shift my taxi!

However part of the problem here is that we are trying to compare apples with oranges. What is good for Hastings might not be good for Edinburgh.

By the way ,as I am a bit computer illiterate I was not aware that there were other parts to the site. I am in the process of reading the OFT report and will follow it up with the Commons Transport Committee`s response ,which I am told is a comprehensive demolition of the OFT`s arguments.I assume you Sussex boys have read it.

I have also re-read MacAskill`s article in the Edinburgh Evening News. At no piont does he say that private hire drivers are criminals and sex offenders. You may disagree with the pionts he makes but don`t lie about him!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:13 pm 
Oh to be able to afford to single shift my taxi!

well if you cant afford to single shift your cab then you must be doing something wrong!!!! There is plenty of work to go about to be able to make a decent living and have time off!
Ever heard the saying " a poor taxi driver is a lazy taxi driver"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:08 pm 
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Roselyn wrote:
Your right ,Yorkie. The people on this site have no idea about the black cab business. Oh to be able to afford to single shift my taxi!


Well bearing in mind that in London they have about 24,000 drivers to 20,000 vehicles, then surely they must have at least 16,000 single shifted black cabs.

And if it is so expensive to run a black cab on your own, then why are there hundreds of drivers on your waiting list, who would only be too pleased to do exactly that.

But anyway, welcome to TDO. :wink:

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