Taxi Driver Online

UK cab trade debate and advice
It is currently Mon May 04, 2026 2:39 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:47 pm
Posts: 20863
Location: Stamford Britains prettiest town till SKDC ruined it
you just knew a taxi driver was going to be blamed :roll:

The Ethopian taxi driver whose faulty fridge is alleged to have caused the Grenfell inferno said he will be forever haunted by what happened.

Behailu Kebede, a father of one, raised the alarm after flames took hold in his flat at number 16 on the fourth floor.

Seventeen people have been confirmed killed in the blaze that ripped through the 24-storey block in White City, west London, on Wednesday morning. But it is feared the death toll could soar into the hundreds, with many still missing.

A friend who spoke to Mr Kebede shortly after the tragic ordeal said the experience was 'tearing him apart' and that he was 'blaming himself even though there was nothing he could do.'

The friend told the Sun: 'He kept repeating it over and over again, ''people have lost their lives I can't bear it.''
Another said that Mr Kebede, described as a 'warm and gentle' person, was 'haunted' by the fire but was relieved that he had managed to warn his neighbours in time.

His neighbour Maryann Adam, 41, who lived at number 14, told how Mr Kebede banged on her front door in the early hours of Wednesday to tell her that there was a fire in his kitchen.
She said: 'He knocked on the door, and he said there was a fire in his flat. It was exactly 12.50am because I was sleeping and it woke me up.

'The fire was small in the kitchen. I could see it because the flat door was open. There was no alarm.'
Mr Kebede friend Eshete Meried said the 44-year-old taxi driver originally from Ethiopia, escaped the building - but was still in shock.

Speaking exclusively to MailOnline, Mr Meried said: 'Behailu did raise the alarm, that is what I am hearing.

'He is fine but he is not in a position to talk about anything right now. I understand that he in a temporary shelter, staying with friends.'

Another friend said Mr Kebede had spoken to police who are investigating the fire.
Maryam left her phone with her belongings in her flat and has been unable to check on other residents. She later attended the Chelsea and Westminster Hospital after feeling dizzy, but was given the all-clear.

Speaking today from emergency accommodation close to the scene of the disaster, Mr Kebede told of his distress at witnessing the very beginning of the inferno, which it is feared to claimed more than 100 lives.

He told MailOnline: 'I am very upset'. Asked whether the fire started in his flat by MailOnline Mr Kebede replied: 'I'm busy, I'm busy. Goodbye.'
A Scotland Yard spokesman said today: 'The investigation is ongoing.'


about time we went back to CFC's instead of isobutane more efficient and safer !!

_________________
lack of modern legislation is the iceberg sinking the titanic of the transport sector


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57358
Location: 1066 Country
It might have started in his flat, but he cannot be blamed for the way the fire spread and all those sad deaths.

The blame, IMO, lays fairly and squarely on that cladding. :sad:

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 20130
Sussex wrote:
It might have started in his flat, but he cannot be blamed for the way the fire spread and all those sad deaths.

The blame, IMO, lays fairly and squarely on that cladding. :sad:

The faulty fridge has nothing to do with it then?

_________________
Grandad,


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:56 pm
Posts: 2553
grandad wrote:
Sussex wrote:
It might have started in his flat, but he cannot be blamed for the way the fire spread and all those sad deaths.

The blame, IMO, lays fairly and squarely on that cladding. :sad:

The faulty fridge has nothing to do with it then?



Agree with Sussex on this,the cladding should have been made of a non-combustible material which would have prevented this tragedy from happening.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 20130
heathcote wrote:
grandad wrote:
Sussex wrote:
It might have started in his flat, but he cannot be blamed for the way the fire spread and all those sad deaths.

The blame, IMO, lays fairly and squarely on that cladding. :sad:

The faulty fridge has nothing to do with it then?



Agree with Sussex on this,the cladding should have been made of a non-combustible material which would have prevented this tragedy from happening.

No faulty fridge = no fire in the first place.

_________________
Grandad,


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 20130
INTRODUCTION
Buildings over 18m in height present numerous challenges when it comes to fire safety. The most obvious difference in comparison to low-rise buildings is the time needed to escape from the top of the building, especially as lifts and escalators are usually no-go in the event of a fire. This is of particular concern in office blocks, where the number of floors can reach triple figures and large groups of people will be attempting to descend multiple flights of stairs at the same time. This not only presents problems in terms of the speed of evacuation, it can also put those with mobility issues at an increased risk.
Other fire-safety issues that must be addressed on multistorey structures include the provision of access for fire fighters (who must work within the structure because ladders cannot be used at height), and the proximity of other buildings.
Fire can spread through an external cladding system via the cavities or through the cladding material itself. The source of ignition may be flames issuing from windows or other openings due to a fire within the building, or there may be an external fire source – for example, fire radiation from another building or from a source immediately next to the cladding, such as refuse set alight by arson.
Flames constrained within cavities can extend five to 10 times their original length regardless of the materials present. If fires are allowed to develop, they may flash over and break out through windows. They may then spread up, over or through the cladding – flames can extend more than 2m above window openings, regardless of cladding materials. If the flames are able to re-enter the building, secondary fires can then develop.
KEY STANDARDS
First published in 1988, BR 135: Fire Performance of external thermal insulation for walls of multistorey buildings responded to the increasing use of thermal insulation within refurbishment programmes on multistorey residential tower blocks. When the document was produced, there was not yet any full-scale fire test available. Recommendations were therefore based on a single-faced large-scale test facility.
However, during the review of BR 135, a number of high-profile fires occurred that led to a review of the test methodology. Coupled with the growth of new design solutions, this suggested that a full-scale fire-test method was necessary to fully understand the overall fire performance of the complete system. As a result, the then Department of the Environment worked with industry to develop one test method, which was published in 1999.
The review process resulted in the publication of the second edition of BR 135 in 2003. This was accompanied by the full-scale fire test method from BRE Fire Note 9, named BS 8414-1: Fire Performance Of External Cladding Systems – Part 1 Test Method for Non-Loadbearing External Cladding Systems Applied to the Face of the Building. This test methodology enables the overall fire performance of the system and its relevant components to be assessed in as close to typical end-use conditions as possible.
Part 1 is applicable to systems fixed to a solid substrate. A Part 2 was introduced in 2013 for systems fixed to and supported by structural steel framework. As masonry substrate and structural steel frames react differently in fire situations, it is important to ensure the relevant test is used.
Under the BS 8414 test series, the sample is fixed to the test rig at a minimum height of 6m above the combustion chamber. Cavity barriers should be included and fitted in accordance with Section 9 of Approved Document B, volume 2. The main face of the rig must be at least 2.8m wide, with a 1.5m-wide wing, and the depth must be no greater than 200mm.
The test is run for 60 minutes and the duration of the fire load is 30 minutes. The start time, ts, for fire spread occurs when the temperature of any external thermal couple at level 1 (2.5m above the top of the combustion chamber) equals or exceeds a 200°C temperature rise above the start temperature, Ts, and remains above this value for at least 30 seconds. Damage is recorded in the following areas:
flame spread on surface
flame spread in cavities or insulation
area of facade damaged or detached.

_________________
Grandad,


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 14152
Location: Wirral
grandad wrote:
INTRODUCTION
Buildings over 18m in height present numerous challenges when it comes to fire safety. The most obvious difference in comparison to low-rise buildings is the time needed to escape from the top of the building, especially as lifts and escalators are usually no-go in the event of a fire. This is of particular concern in office blocks, where the number of floors can reach triple figures and large groups of people will be attempting to descend multiple flights of stairs at the same time. This not only presents problems in terms of the speed of evacuation, it can also put those with mobility issues at an increased risk.
Other fire-safety issues that must be addressed on multistorey structures include the provision of access for fire fighters (who must work within the structure because ladders cannot be used at height), and the proximity of other buildings.
Fire can spread through an external cladding system via the cavities or through the cladding material itself. The source of ignition may be flames issuing from windows or other openings due to a fire within the building, or there may be an external fire source – for example, fire radiation from another building or from a source immediately next to the cladding, such as refuse set alight by arson.
Flames constrained within cavities can extend five to 10 times their original length regardless of the materials present. If fires are allowed to develop, they may flash over and break out through windows. They may then spread up, over or through the cladding – flames can extend more than 2m above window openings, regardless of cladding materials. If the flames are able to re-enter the building, secondary fires can then develop.
KEY STANDARDS
First published in 1988, BR 135: Fire Performance of external thermal insulation for walls of multistorey buildings responded to the increasing use of thermal insulation within refurbishment programmes on multistorey residential tower blocks. When the document was produced, there was not yet any full-scale fire test available. Recommendations were therefore based on a single-faced large-scale test facility.
However, during the review of BR 135, a number of high-profile fires occurred that led to a review of the test methodology. Coupled with the growth of new design solutions, this suggested that a full-scale fire-test method was necessary to fully understand the overall fire performance of the complete system. As a result, the then Department of the Environment worked with industry to develop one test method, which was published in 1999.
The review process resulted in the publication of the second edition of BR 135 in 2003. This was accompanied by the full-scale fire test method from BRE Fire Note 9, named BS 8414-1: Fire Performance Of External Cladding Systems – Part 1 Test Method for Non-Loadbearing External Cladding Systems Applied to the Face of the Building. This test methodology enables the overall fire performance of the system and its relevant components to be assessed in as close to typical end-use conditions as possible.
Part 1 is applicable to systems fixed to a solid substrate. A Part 2 was introduced in 2013 for systems fixed to and supported by structural steel framework. As masonry substrate and structural steel frames react differently in fire situations, it is important to ensure the relevant test is used.
Under the BS 8414 test series, the sample is fixed to the test rig at a minimum height of 6m above the combustion chamber. Cavity barriers should be included and fitted in accordance with Section 9 of Approved Document B, volume 2. The main face of the rig must be at least 2.8m wide, with a 1.5m-wide wing, and the depth must be no greater than 200mm.
The test is run for 60 minutes and the duration of the fire load is 30 minutes. The start time, ts, for fire spread occurs when the temperature of any external thermal couple at level 1 (2.5m above the top of the combustion chamber) equals or exceeds a 200°C temperature rise above the start temperature, Ts, and remains above this value for at least 30 seconds. Damage is recorded in the following areas:
flame spread on surface
flame spread in cavities or insulation
area of facade damaged or detached.


What is that.

_________________
Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:25 pm
Posts: 37494
Location: Wayneistan
bit late for fire safety advice grandad - theyre dead now ffs

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 20130
toots wrote:
grandad wrote:
INTRODUCTION
Buildings over 18m in height present numerous challenges when it comes to fire safety. The most obvious difference in comparison to low-rise buildings is the time needed to escape from the top of the building, especially as lifts and escalators are usually no-go in the event of a fire. This is of particular concern in office blocks, where the number of floors can reach triple figures and large groups of people will be attempting to descend multiple flights of stairs at the same time. This not only presents problems in terms of the speed of evacuation, it can also put those with mobility issues at an increased risk.
Other fire-safety issues that must be addressed on multistorey structures include the provision of access for fire fighters (who must work within the structure because ladders cannot be used at height), and the proximity of other buildings.
Fire can spread through an external cladding system via the cavities or through the cladding material itself. The source of ignition may be flames issuing from windows or other openings due to a fire within the building, or there may be an external fire source – for example, fire radiation from another building or from a source immediately next to the cladding, such as refuse set alight by arson.
Flames constrained within cavities can extend five to 10 times their original length regardless of the materials present. If fires are allowed to develop, they may flash over and break out through windows. They may then spread up, over or through the cladding – flames can extend more than 2m above window openings, regardless of cladding materials. If the flames are able to re-enter the building, secondary fires can then develop.
KEY STANDARDS
First published in 1988, BR 135: Fire Performance of external thermal insulation for walls of multistorey buildings responded to the increasing use of thermal insulation within refurbishment programmes on multistorey residential tower blocks. When the document was produced, there was not yet any full-scale fire test available. Recommendations were therefore based on a single-faced large-scale test facility.
However, during the review of BR 135, a number of high-profile fires occurred that led to a review of the test methodology. Coupled with the growth of new design solutions, this suggested that a full-scale fire-test method was necessary to fully understand the overall fire performance of the complete system. As a result, the then Department of the Environment worked with industry to develop one test method, which was published in 1999.
The review process resulted in the publication of the second edition of BR 135 in 2003. This was accompanied by the full-scale fire test method from BRE Fire Note 9, named BS 8414-1: Fire Performance Of External Cladding Systems – Part 1 Test Method for Non-Loadbearing External Cladding Systems Applied to the Face of the Building. This test methodology enables the overall fire performance of the system and its relevant components to be assessed in as close to typical end-use conditions as possible.
Part 1 is applicable to systems fixed to a solid substrate. A Part 2 was introduced in 2013 for systems fixed to and supported by structural steel framework. As masonry substrate and structural steel frames react differently in fire situations, it is important to ensure the relevant test is used.
Under the BS 8414 test series, the sample is fixed to the test rig at a minimum height of 6m above the combustion chamber. Cavity barriers should be included and fitted in accordance with Section 9 of Approved Document B, volume 2. The main face of the rig must be at least 2.8m wide, with a 1.5m-wide wing, and the depth must be no greater than 200mm.
The test is run for 60 minutes and the duration of the fire load is 30 minutes. The start time, ts, for fire spread occurs when the temperature of any external thermal couple at level 1 (2.5m above the top of the combustion chamber) equals or exceeds a 200°C temperature rise above the start temperature, Ts, and remains above this value for at least 30 seconds. Damage is recorded in the following areas:
flame spread on surface
flame spread in cavities or insulation
area of facade damaged or detached.


What is that.

That is the standards that are used to say that this cladding is safe. This is the information that decision makers are provided with when making decisions on insulating buildings.As far as I am aware the insulation used on this, and many tower blocks meet the required standard. I would be interested to find out if this particular cladding actually met the standard or if it was made in a substandard way.

_________________
Grandad,


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 20130
captain cab wrote:
bit late for fire safety advice grandad - theyre dead now ffs

Seems a rather flippant remark. It is not fire safety advice it is the standard that these wall insulation's are supposed to meet.

_________________
Grandad,


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:47 pm
Posts: 20863
Location: Stamford Britains prettiest town till SKDC ruined it
over the last 2 years our council have been attaching polystyrene blocks to the outside of council houses because it meets the insulation criteria but I doubt for one minute it wouldn't go up in flames in a fire

Councils up and down the country have sacrificed fire safety in a bid to meet government targets for energy efficiency

which do you want lower gas and leccy bills or lower fire risk ? I think most tenants were keen on the former

_________________
lack of modern legislation is the iceberg sinking the titanic of the transport sector


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 20130
edders23 wrote:
over the last 2 years our council have been attaching polystyrene blocks to the outside of council houses because it meets the insulation criteria but I doubt for one minute it wouldn't go up in flames in a fire

Councils up and down the country have sacrificed fire safety in a bid to meet government targets for energy efficiency

which do you want lower gas and leccy bills or lower fire risk ? I think most tenants were keen on the former

You seem to be missing the point. Councils are being told that these systems are safe and they have been tested to whatever British or European fire standards are applicable. So either the standards are not robust enough or the manufacturers of these materials are not sticking to the standards. If any product has the appropriate British standard or EU standard issued the purchaser, whether that be a Council, Company or private individual, should be able to use that product for the purpose that it is intended knowing that it is safe.

_________________
Grandad,


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:45 am
Posts: 9966
Location: Braintree, Essex.
grandad wrote:
The faulty fridge has nothing to do with it then?


He was keeping his semtex cool.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:45 am
Posts: 9966
Location: Braintree, Essex.
edders23 wrote:
over the last 2 years our council have been attaching polystyrene blocks to the outside of council houses because it meets the insulation criteria but I doubt for one minute it wouldn't go up in flames in a fire

Councils up and down the country have sacrificed fire safety in a bid to meet government targets for energy efficiency

which do you want lower gas and leccy bills or lower fire risk ? I think most tenants were keen on the former


How about these polystyrene blocks they're fitting onto houses to insulate them. ?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57358
Location: 1066 Country
grandad wrote:
No faulty fridge = no fire in the first place.

Agreed, but IMO the liability for the fridge fire is limited to the kitchen and at most the flat.

I think the top fire officer said they have a dozen or so similar fires every day or week in London, none of them have ever escalated like this very sad event.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cerberus and 727 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group