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heathcote
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:13 pm 
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sasha wrote:
grandad wrote:
toots wrote:
I certainly wouldn't be looking to go PAYE but it would be nice if I could have holiday pay, sick pay and perhaps a pension.

I am currently advertising for full time drivers to be employed on the books. I am offering above the minimum wage with a bonus on top dependant on how much the driver takes. They will get the full 28 days holiday entitlement, a company pension scheme, statutory sick pay, use of the subsidised cafeteria in our office complex and free use of the gymnasium. Our current drivers who are not already employees have also been offered the opportunity to become full time employees. To date not one of the current drivers has asked to be PAYE and I have had no applications at all.
But from what youv'e told us in previous posts your company is one of the good ones to work for, pretty much letting the drivers get on with the job in their own way with little intervention from yourself.
Compare that to my company who practically dictate every single aspect of the working day with the attitude 'if you dont like it work for someone else' and you can see why some drivers rckon they are treated more like employees than self-employed.

If I was on your company I probably wouldnt want to go PAYE either, because your drivers log on and accept/decline jobs as they see fit - as it should be. The latest from my office is if we decline too many jobs in a week they'll start issuing fines ! Add on all the other 'rules' they have and it becomes clear I have very little say in how I work - certainly not the complete control a truly self employed person would have.

You are correct in how we operate with self employed drivers and you have hit the nail on the head as to why they don't want to be PAYE. However we thought that some people may prefer the certainty of a full time contract of employment as preached by the likes of TT but it seems not to be the case.[/quote]

It is illegal for some to issue a fine against someone carrying out work for them unless they are empowered to do so by law.
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Sussex
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:11 am 
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I think Toots makes some good points.

Far too many operators have been treating far too many drivers as employees, yet hiding behind pseudo rules that allow them to bypass fair and reasonable employee rights.

I'm very happy to agree that their are many many good operators out their, but I'm also sad to say their are many many who have abused a flawed system to enrich themselves on the back on drivers struggling to earn a decent living for them and their families.

Will this be the end of drivers going skint when they get poorly, or all drivers regularly having a proper holiday, I very much doubt it.

But it will help some, and that IMO is a very good thing.

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edders23
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:35 pm 
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personally I don't think a half way house is possible as such a status would involve insurance companies and as we all know those policies are no good for anything other than long term/major illnesses

I think pushing employers to put drivers onto PAYE but with some sort of flexible working contract might be the only fair way forward

or something similar to the building trade whereby tax and NI collected by employers on behalf of their "contractors" aka drivers who would be entitled also to holiday and sick pay based on length of time worked under contract

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grandad
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:55 pm 
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edders23 wrote:
personally I don't think a half way house is possible as such a status would involve insurance companies and as we all know those policies are no good for anything other than long term/major illnesses

I think pushing employers to put drivers onto PAYE but with some sort of flexible working contract might be the only fair way forward

or something similar to the building trade whereby tax and NI collected by employers on behalf of their "contractors" aka drivers who would be entitled also to holiday and sick pay based on length of time worked under contract

The sick pay requirement is actually a load of rubbish. As an employee you are entitled to statutory sick pay based on your earnings. There is no requirement on any employer to offer anything other than statutory sick pay so there is no need for any insurance policy at all to cover sick pay unless the employer wants to provide one.

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edders23
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:38 pm 
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As an employee you are entitled to statutory sick

but are they not proposing a status which is "employment" but a half way house :wink:

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sasha
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:42 pm 
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grandad wrote:
You are correct in how we operate with self employed drivers and you have hit the nail on the head as to why they don't want to be PAYE. However we thought that some people may prefer the certainty of a full time contract of employment as preached by the likes of TT but it seems not to be the case.
It depends on the terms and conditions, and how much you pay !
If as self employed you log on when you want, work the hours you chose, take days off whenever you choose plus have control over how your daily work is done - and after 40 hours make a profit of £400, you're not going to want to go paye and be told when and how to work and only be paid £300 for 40 hours.

I like the flexibility to choose when and if I work, but I don't like being treated like an employee and not being given the benefits I should be.
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sasha
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:47 pm 
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heathcote wrote:
It is illegal for some to issue a fine against someone carrying out work for them unless they are empowered to do so by law.
Yes I know. Try telling the company though, you just get the usual 'if you dont like it work for someone else'. Oh, and they disable your datahead until the fine is paid, if still not paid after a week you're automatically thrown off the fleet.

Licensing don't want to get involved, their response is companies have their rules, nothing to do with us !
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grandad
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:57 pm 
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sasha wrote:
grandad wrote:
You are correct in how we operate with self employed drivers and you have hit the nail on the head as to why they don't want to be PAYE. However we thought that some people may prefer the certainty of a full time contract of employment as preached by the likes of TT but it seems not to be the case.
It depends on the terms and conditions, and how much you pay !
If as self employed you log on when you want, work the hours you chose, take days off whenever you choose plus have control over how your daily work is done - and after 40 hours make a profit of £400, you're not going to want to go paye and be told when and how to work and only be paid £300 for 40 hours.

I like the flexibility to choose when and if I work, but I don't like being treated like an employee and not being given the benefits I should be.

We have a whiteboard on the wall and every Monday when the drivers come to the office they fill out the hours that they are expecting to work for the week ahead. Sometimes things change for some reason but generally the drivers work the hours they put on the board. We take bookings based on when the drivers are available. We can usually depend on having drivers from 08.00 until 23.00 Monday to friday and until 01.00 Saturday night/Sunday morning. We have one driver who works on Sunday from 08.30 until 19.00. when the office is unmanned the phone is diverted to all the drivers who want to work outside the office hours.

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