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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:29 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
I'm interested how this pans out, in respect of getting a new license or renewing outside of the court process.

As it stands Uber have lost their license as they have been deemed to be not fit and proper. Clearly they have the right to appeal.

However until that appeal process finishes I can't see how the existing management can get a new license.

They can't promise the earth on the existing license as that has ended, and IMO only a court can tell TfL to re-license.

Or TfL could concede they were wrong to deem Uber not to be fit and proper.

Can't see how TfL can do that, as that would mean TfL made a mistake, and have admitted to making a mistake.

Not sure TfL would be legally advised to do that even if that actually believed that to be the case.

So I watch with added interest as to how this is resolved, if it happens, outside of the court process.


Had wondered about that, and whether there was any process or procedure for TfL to reissue/reinstate the licence, or whatever.

After all, if Uber provide compelling assurances that they'll rectify the deficiencies then don't see why TfL couldn't reconsider, and that wouldn't mean TfL admitting to a mistake. When the facts change...

So presumably there's some procedure for reinstating the licence in an out-of-court settlement, so to speak?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:10 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
So presumably there's some procedure for reinstating the licence in an out-of-court settlement, so to speak?

I'm not sure there is.

The license to all intents and purposes is no more, unless IMO a court says otherwise.

A month ago I wouldn't have considered this an issue, as someone else could apply for an ops license and keep it safe for Uber to use if they lost their appeals or decided not to continue.

Then Uber could merely transfer/buyout that new ops license and put it under their own banner.

But it appears that avenue is blocked via the way TfL dealt with Taxify viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31818

:-k

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:14 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
StuartW wrote:
So presumably there's some procedure for reinstating the licence in an out-of-court settlement, so to speak?

I'm not sure there is.

The license to all intents and purposes is no more, unless IMO a court says otherwise.

A month ago I wouldn't have considered this an issue, as someone else could apply for an ops license and keep it safe for Uber to use if they lost their appeals or decided not to continue.

Then Uber could merely transfer/buyout that new ops license and put it under their own banner.

But it appears that avenue is blocked via the way TfL dealt with Taxify http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/vie ... =2&t=31818

:-k


Unless UBER withdraws their appeal and ceases operating, by doing so could apply for a new operator license but that would not change the fact that they are not fit and proper to be licensed and in all probability will be refused.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:07 pm 
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I suppose a new license could be offered to Uber with a number of new specific conditions attached it it.

But I’m not sure that could be added to the exiting license, unless maybe by a court.

But I doubt a court would be happy doing that.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:12 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
I suppose a new license could be offered to Uber with a number of new specific conditions attached it it.

But I’m not sure that could be added to the exiting license, unless maybe by a court.

But I doubt a court would be happy doing that.


don't most ph in the provinces just merely change the name on the license?

indeed given the deregulation act, why bother, just up sticks and operate from Wolverhampton?

this is what PH wanted aint it???

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:32 am 
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Sussex wrote:
StuartW wrote:
So presumably there's some procedure for reinstating the licence in an out-of-court settlement, so to speak?

I'm not sure there is.

The license to all intents and purposes is no more, unless IMO a court says otherwise.

A month ago I wouldn't have considered this an issue, as someone else could apply for an ops license and keep it safe for Uber to use if they lost their appeals or decided not to continue.

Then Uber could merely transfer/buyout that new ops license and put it under their own banner.

But it appears that avenue is blocked via the way TfL dealt with Taxify viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31818

:-k


But surely the point in the Taxify case was that TfL not happy with change of directors. If TfL happy with reconstituted Uber set up then they could issue new license and the end result is that Uber stays in business in London?

Anyway, since Uber and TfL in talks then there must be some kind of understanding that there's a mechanism whereby Uber can be relicensed without a full court hearing.

Can't be bothered looking, but maybe there's something in the legislation that would deal with such a scenario.

Or maybe if TfL satisfied with Uber assurances then they would simply not contest the appeal in court, and to that extent the court would have to reinstate the licence.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:56 am 
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StuartW wrote:
But surely the point in the Taxify case was that TfL not happy with change of directors. If TfL happy with reconstituted Uber set up then they could issue new license and the end result is that Uber stays in business in London?

The bit I'm struggling with is TfL have already made a decision that those who have signed the Uber application are not fit and proper people. They could have easily re-licensed with more onerous conditions, but decided not to.
StuartW wrote:
Anyway, since Uber and TfL in talks then there must be some kind of understanding that there's a mechanism whereby Uber can be relicensed without a full court hearing.

I'm not struggling with that one. IMO that was a charade, merely arranged by the Mayor to make it appear TfL are the good guys and are more than willing to engage with Uber. In other words a PR exercise. I'm surprised they found a big enough table to accommodate the amount of lawyers present at that meeting.
StuartW wrote:
Can't be bothered looking, but maybe there's something in the legislation that would deal with such a scenario.

Be surprised if this has happened under the 1998 Act before.
StuartW wrote:
Or maybe if TfL satisfied with Uber assurances then they would simply not contest the appeal in court, and to that extent the court would have to reinstate the licence.

Quite possible.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:20 am 
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captain cab wrote:
Sussex wrote:
I suppose a new license could be offered to Uber with a number of new specific conditions attached it it.

But I’m not sure that could be added to the exiting license, unless maybe by a court.

But I doubt a court would be happy doing that.


don't most ph in the provinces just merely change the name on the license?

indeed given the deregulation act, why bother, just up sticks and operate from Wolverhampton?

this is what PH wanted aint it???


As operators licenses are not transferable you cannot just change the name and continue trading,a NEW license has to be applied for and granted in the name of the person(new operator)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:28 am 
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TFL are gods...gods can do what they want.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:27 am 
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MR T wrote:
TFL are gods...gods can do what they want.


is the right answer =D> =D>

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:39 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
I'm not struggling with that one. IMO that was a charade, merely arranged by the Mayor to make it appear TfL are the good guys and are more than willing to engage with Uber. In other words a PR exercise. I'm surprised they found a big enough table to accommodate the amount of lawyers present at that meeting.


Indeed, and one of Uber's defining features is that they've take this kind of PR/lobbying/legalism to new heights in the industry, and of course TfL will be more likely to have the resources to combat this, so unlike the average borough council.

Thus to a degree it's maybe irresistible force meets immoveable object, and it's a case of who blinks first. But I wouldn't be surprised if TfL expected all along that Uber would continue, and they're just sabre rattling because Uber won't play ball on compliance, so effectively TfL's position is simply to force Uber's hand.

And Uber's war chest and bigwig lawyers maybe underline why they considered it a good idea to meet TfL - as well as the PR dimension, perhaps it all suggests Uber's lawyers know there's a process by which the licence can be reinstated before it all gets to court. No doubt they'll have been all over the London legislation with a fine tooth comb looking for a suitable remedy, and will know all the procedural ins and outs of the litigation process. #-o


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:14 pm 
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Do not forget the ( Minister ) can influence the decision.....They work for him......Who he will work for later on in life .. who knows ??

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:03 pm 
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Sadiq Khan and therefore TFL are under immense pressure from the Unions particularly Unite and The GMB to dump Uber their employment practices blow them out of the water :D unless of course they make payments to their drivers as they did in New York for underpaying them and commit to accepting their drivers are "workers under the direction"which of course will delight the entire PH industry in London as they would then be obliged to follow suit, failure to do that would leave Uber as the only clean company ....................happy days,again illustrating that "Organized" workers have immense power =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

My sources indicate there;s plenty to negotiate at the moment and that the LPHCA and other Parasitical Organisations are sh!tt!ing themselves =D> =D> =D>

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:01 pm 
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trotskys twin wrote:
Sadiq Khan and therefore TFL are under immense pressure from the Unions particularly Unite and The GMB to dump Uber their employment practices blow them out of the water :D unless of course they make payments to their drivers as they did in New York for underpaying them and commit to accepting their drivers are "workers under the direction"which of course will delight the entire PH industry in London as they would then be obliged to follow suit, failure to do that would leave Uber as the only clean company ....................happy days,again illustrating that "Organized" workers have immense power =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

My sources indicate there;s plenty to negotiate at the moment and that the LPHCA and other Parasitical Organisations are sh!tt!ing themselves =D> =D> =D>



Uber should not be allowed a license anywhere,they are not "fit and proper persons" to hold a P/H Operators License.
Surprised that you are contemplating letting them operate as a clean company if they offer payments and rights to drivers,that does not make them "fit and proper persons" to be granted a P/H Operators license.
It would appear from your comments PUBLIC SAFETY has gone out of the window in regards to the pressure you are referring to being applied by the Unions,I do not think the Unions are only applying pressure with regard to workers rights.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:09 pm 
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If Uber isn't considered fit and proper in London - how can the cross border PH thing still work?

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