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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 7:41 am 
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Calls to close 'loophole' allowing taxi drivers from outside Winchester to operate in city

http://www.hampshirechronicle.co.uk/new ... e_in_city/

TAXI drivers in Winchester are calling for an end to a loophole allowing cabbies from other parts of the country to operate in the city.

Colin Smith, a registered Hackney taxi driver, says drivers from Wolverhampton in the Midlands, are operating in Winchester, despite being licensed in their home city.

Now Winchester City Council has revealed it is lobbying the government to change the law.

In a letter to the council, Mr Smith said: “At the moment there are 15 or more Wolverhampton taxis working in Winchester... Instead of applying to Winchester City Council as they don’t think they can pass the relatively easy knowledge test, they bypass this and get a licence very easily at Wolverhampton, they then can work (cross border) as a private hire worker.”

Mr Smith also raised concerns that these drivers don’t pay fees to the council, are not subject to safety spot checks and are taking work from struggling local cabbies.

A spokesman for the council (WCC) responded to the letter, saying: “The Deregulation Act 2015 enables private hire taxi operators to sub-contract their work to a driver licensed by another local authority subject to certain requirements. We know that private hire operators in Winchester take advantage of this by sending drivers to become licensed by Wolverhampton City Council, and the drivers can return to Winchester and work for these operators.

“We have no reason to believe that Wolverhampton City Council does not licence drivers properly.

“WCC is writing to the government and to Wolverhampton City Council to explain that this current practice is detrimentally affecting our controls over the private hire fleet operating in the district.

“WCC is also joining TFL (Transport for London) to lobby the Government to change the law but until this is done then our controls over the practice are limited.”

However, a spokesman for taxi firm Wintax, the oldest in the city, says that the real problem is the council’s “extremely hard” tests.

The spokesman told the Chronicle: “I myself currently do not have any of those [Wolverhampton licensed] drivers working with us. I still say if the likes of Uber are going to exploit the market then why not the take the same advantage as they did. It is all legal.

“The main issue in Winchester is the test has always been extremely hard for some unknown reason. All drivers from any council that has a legit taxi plate and badge have paid for this and have had an enhanced DBS check at the least.”

He added: “I can not fault [Wolverhampton drivers] because they have just taken advantage of a loop hole that gives them more control. I agree there should be a balance but there has always been an imbalance in Winchester.”

Both Winchester and Wolverhampton city councils have been approached for comment but had not responded at the time of going to press.

In the past the city council has decided to let the market decide how many licensed taxis should operate across the Winchester district. This has seen the number of taxis greatly increase since the early 1990s.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 7:44 am 
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However, a spokesman for taxi firm Wintax, the oldest in the city, says that the real problem is the council’s “extremely hard” tests.

The spokesman told the Chronicle: “I myself currently do not have any of those [Wolverhampton licensed] drivers working with us. I still say if the likes of Uber are going to exploit the market then why not the take the same advantage as they did. It is all legal.

“The main issue in Winchester is the test has always been extremely hard for some unknown reason. All drivers from any council that has a legit taxi plate and badge have paid for this and have had an enhanced DBS check at the least.”

He added: “I can not fault [Wolverhampton drivers] because they have just taken advantage of a loop hole that gives them more control. I agree there should be a balance but there has always been an imbalance in Winchester.”


Probably someone with long-term bee in bonnet about knowledge test, who sees the situation as an opportunity to water it down/get rid.

Perhaps someone who Sussex would call a spiv. :badgrin:


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 6:50 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
Colin Smith, a registered Hackney taxi driver, says drivers from Wolverhampton in the Midlands, are operating in Winchester, despite being licensed in their home city.

Not currently the case although Uber could change their mind any time they choose to.

StuartW wrote:
We know that private hire operators in Winchester take advantage of this by sending drivers to become licensed by Wolverhampton City Council, and the drivers can return to Winchester and work for these operators.

Not sure it's operators, pretty certain it's just the one.

StuartW wrote:
However, a spokesman for taxi firm Wintax, the oldest in the city, says that the real problem is the council’s “extremely hard” tests.

There's always a spiv who wants standards diluted.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 6:52 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
Perhaps someone who Sussex would call a spiv. :badgrin:

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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 8:10 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
StuartW wrote:
Colin Smith, a registered Hackney taxi driver, says drivers from Wolverhampton in the Midlands, are operating in Winchester, despite being licensed in their home city.

Not currently the case although Uber could change their mind any time they choose to.

StuartW wrote:
We know that private hire operators in Winchester take advantage of this by sending drivers to become licensed by Wolverhampton City Council, and the drivers can return to Winchester and work for these operators.

Not sure it's operators, pretty certain it's just the one.

Does not matter who the operators are,the Council by their own admissions are condoneing,aiding and abetting persons to break the LAW.The only time an operator can subcontact to an out of town vehicle is throgh an operator licensed in the area of the out of town vehicle,3 license rule always applies.


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:59 pm 
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heathcote wrote:
Sussex wrote:
StuartW wrote:
Colin Smith, a registered Hackney taxi driver, says drivers from Wolverhampton in the Midlands, are operating in Winchester, despite being licensed in their home city.

Not currently the case although Uber could change their mind any time they choose to.

StuartW wrote:
We know that private hire operators in Winchester take advantage of this by sending drivers to become licensed by Wolverhampton City Council, and the drivers can return to Winchester and work for these operators.

Not sure it's operators, pretty certain it's just the one.

Does not matter who the operators are,the Council by their own admissions are condoneing,aiding and abetting persons to break the LAW.The only time an operator can subcontact to an out of town vehicle is throgh an operator licensed in the area of the out of town vehicle,3 license rule always applies.

Not sure that is the case with a hackney carriage. A hackney can accept a pre booking from anywhere and does not have an operators license. This was the same as before the deregulation act. The deregulation act just made it possible to subcontract to an operator from any area.

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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:48 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
There's always a spiv who wants standards diluted.


Yes, and little change in the arguments over the years - two pieces in a couple of days about watering down knowledge tests from different ends of the UK - Wick to Winchester, 670 miles according to Google :shock:

Who knows, Uber might induce a backlash against diluting standards, but suspect it will be local in nature rather than a more national effort :-|


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:16 am 
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Winchester civic chief writes to Wolverhampton council over its controversial licensing of city taxis

http://www.hampshirechronicle.co.uk/new ... ity-taxis/

WINCHESTER'S civic chief has written to a licensing authority to express concerns over the number of Wolverhampton-registered taxis operation in the city.

It has also been confirmed that officers are looking at ways to limit the impact the drivers are having on Winchester's taxi firms.

The news follows fears being expressed by drivers over the safety of non-Winchester registered cabs, work being taken away from locals, and that fees were going to Wolverhampton City Council rather the Winchester.

As previously reported, Colin Smith, a registered Hackney taxi driver, told councillors earlier this year: "At the moment there are 15 or more Wolverhampton taxis working in Winchester... Instead of applying to Winchester City Council as they don’t think they can pass the relatively easy knowledge test, they bypass this and get a licence very easily at Wolverhampton, they then can work (cross border) as a private hire worker."

Responding to a question from Cllr David McLean at last week's council meeting, environment portfolio holder Jan Warwick said: "Private hire taxi’s operating in Winchester under a Wolverhampton licence plate are able to do so by virtue of the Deregulation Act 2015.

"Winchester City Council’s licensing authority is therefore unable to directly control the numbers of these ‘non’ Winchester licensed vehicles, under current national legislation."

Cllr Warwick added: "The leader has written to Wolverhampton City Council, expressing Winchester’s concerns at their proactive practice of licensing private hire operators across the country and its impact within Winchester.

"The city council would add its voice to that of various regulatory licensing authorities, most notably Transport for London, in seeking legislative change, and Steve Brine MP has also given a commitment to lobby ministers for the Department of Transport."

The Echo understands a response has been received from Wolverhampton City Council, but it was not clear what it said at the time of going to press.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:49 am 
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StuartW wrote:


Perhaps someone who Sussex would call a spiv. :badgrin:


he doesn't need an excuse his two favourite words in the English language Spiv and CCTV :lol:

seriously though Mr Wintax needs to be careful what he wishes for it might turn out to be more advantageous to his competitors than him :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:53 pm 
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I'm pretty sure Winchester is not in Uber's Midlands area, so if there are Wolverhampton PHVs working there then they are working for local operators.

And in that case I suggest they are possibly not working via a Wolverhampton base.

And I doubt any letter from Winchester council will make any difference, other than maybe acting as a bin liner.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:35 am 
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Sussex wrote:
There's always a spiv who wants standards diluted.


Sussex wrote:
And I doubt any letter from Winchester council will make any difference, other than maybe acting as a bin liner.


Suspect both the spiv firm and Wolverhampton council beginning to have second thoughts now.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:50 am 
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Let’s hope so.

I still wonder if the scumbag rapist had an ops license.

I very much doubt he did, therefore the work he was given by the firm was unlicensed.

Whilst that will not matter much to scumbag rapist, the operator should be prosecuted.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:36 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Let’s hope so.

I still wonder if the scumbag rapist had an ops license.

I very much doubt he did, therefore the work he was given by the firm was unlicensed.

Whilst that will not matter much to scumbag rapist, the operator should be prosecuted.


Maybe the firm Wessex Cars had one of those ghost/brassplate/sham offices (or whatever you want to call them) in Wolverhampton, as outlined in that Times article last year (below).

Could well have been that Wessex Cars operated all the Wolverhampton plates in Winchester, which was 15 cars in total, according to the original article above. And Uber not there, and another firm quoted said they didn't have any Wolverhampton plates. And today Wessex Cars say they won't be renewing their Wolverhampton plates, so by the sounds of it had a few.

Taxi scandal: riddle of firms all based in single office

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/taxi ... -hpsrrfhw0

Above a diner and accessible only via a back door off a dingy alley stands a small and unremarkable office.

To the untrained eye, it is the home of a local minicab firm, Wednesfield Cars, whose manager is adamant that his is the only business operating there.

Wolverhampton council knows better. It has licensed 13 competing taxi companies to run their operations from the very same office.

In the past three years, Wolverhampton has become the go-to local authority for thousands of drivers from all corners of England in search of a minicab licence. In 2015, it issued 852; this year, 9,388. The same period saw the number of minicab companies licensed to operate in the city climb from 12 to 100.

In total, 58 of those companies are listed as operating from one of four Wolverhampton addresses. When The Times visited, there was no trace of 52 of them.

The council has not merely licensed dozens of hard-to-spot firms at those locations. It has also issued licences to thousands of drivers who work in other English towns for companies with exactly the same business names as the Wolverhampton operators. Those firms run visible minicab operations in places including Birmingham, Manchester, Stockport, Stoke-on-Trent, Derby, Mansfield, Nottingham, Cambridge, Windsor & Maidenhead and Swale, in Kent.

One of the four addresses has for the past few years been the operations hub for a genuine local company called ABC Cars and its sister ABC Countdown Cars. According to the council, an additional 17 minicab firms operate at the same place. Not so, says Richard Halsall, ABC’s manager, who said he had never heard of any of them.

Licensing experts have suggested an explanation. Under the Deregulation Act 2015, minicab companies operating anywhere are entitled to subcontract work to other firms, with one proviso.

If a minicab firm in Manchester wants to use drivers and vehicles licensed by Wolverhampton, the pre-booked work they are given must be sub-contracted to the firm by a Wolverhampton minicab operator. So it would be convenient for the Manchester firm to be able to show that all the jobs it gives its Wolverhampton drivers were sub-contracted by its sister firm, of the same name, in the West Midlands city.

If that sister operator has no employees and runs no vehicles, the law does not seem to care. This loophole has been embraced by Wolverhampton council, whose “efficient” approach to licensing has proved highly lucrative. Its income from taxi and minicab licences rose from £263,000 in 2014-15 to £2.2 million in 2017-18.

Last night the council defended its conduct, insisting that it applied stringent standards to drivers it licenses and claiming that its popularity was due to swift and efficient online applications.

The authority’s licensing committee chairman, Alan Bolshaw, said its approach complied with relevant legislation and, by embracing digitalisation, was far more advanced that the “very traditional and rigid licensing practices” used by other local authorities.

To suggest that a minicab operator needed to have employees, drivers and vehicles in the area where it was based was a concept that belonged, he said, to the days of “long-winded and outdated processes”.

The 52 minicab operators that did not appear to exist at the four addresses were entirely legitimate. Each was, he said, represented at its registered operating base by a digital recording system, in the form of a box. “Why are there so many vehicles and drivers on the roads licensed by Wolverhampton council? Because we have the best licensing system in the UK,” he boasted.


Other councils would beg to disagree, particularly those hit by a recent influx of Wolverhampton-licensed minicab drivers and cars. Many, as was the case with the earlier surge in Rossendale-plated vehicles, have voiced safeguarding concerns.

Licensing officers in Southampton were contacted by Hampshire police investigating the alleged rape of a female passenger by a local driver. The council did not have him on its books and it turned out that he had been licensed by Wolverhampton.

In Rotherham, the town hit by a mass sex-grooming scandal in which minicab drivers were implicated, more than a dozen men, including five refused licences by the council for reasons including safeguarding concerns, have applied for Wolverhampton licences.

Birmingham councillors claim that Wolverhampton is “more lenient” than its neighbours. A Coventry licensing committee member complained that “treating taxi licensing as a cash cow undermines public safety”. The West Midlands authority was handing out minicab licences “like sweeties”.

Nottingham’s chief licensing officer, Richard Antcliff, accused Wolverhampton of exploiting a “farcical loophole” in the regulations. “Somewhere along the line, Wolverhampton has lost its moral compass,” he said.

The driver arrested in Southampton had no convictions and lost his licence immediately, Mr Bolshaw said. Wolverhampton had “worked extensively” with Rotherham council and the National Crime Agency “to ensure any drivers implicated in child exploitation do not gain Wolverhampton licences”.


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