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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:40 am 
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There are plenty of self employed truckers and they have to follow the rules. There are also self employed coach drivers and they follow the rules too. I’ve never understood why it’s ok for taxi/private hire drivers to work such long hours without proper breaks

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:28 am 
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toots wrote:
There are plenty of self employed truckers and they have to follow the rules. There are also self employed coach drivers and they follow the rules too. I’ve never understood why it’s ok for taxi/private hire drivers to work such long hours without proper breaks


I guess by the very impromptu nature of our work and the type of "Any Distance and anywhere" jobs we do makes it impossible for most of us o Drive to prescribed times.

You can't be expected to Stop driving for say 45 minutes rest when your only 2 Hours into a four and half hour Journey if your client has a Plane to catch just because your driving times up, If we did so we would never be permitted to take on runs over a certain distance or duration

Coaches and Lorries tend to adhere to Pre Defined Routes which allows for such controlled stops...But in a Taxi or a Hack the routes are much more fluid and you just never know until the punter jumps in or changes their destinations mid route for whatever reason where their final destination is.

That's why we need more driver time flexibility than either Truck or Coach drivers.

By all means Cap the Working week to something realistically sensible but you can't start carving up our driving day into small chunks like the Truckers and Coach Drivers do or it would all fall apart at the seems...your next run wont be to happy if you run out of time before you collect them.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:16 pm 
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bloodnock wrote:
toots wrote:
There are plenty of self employed truckers and they have to follow the rules. There are also self employed coach drivers and they follow the rules too. I’ve never understood why it’s ok for taxi/private hire drivers to work such long hours without proper breaks


I guess by the very impromptu nature of our work and the type of "Any Distance and anywhere" jobs we do makes it impossible for most of us o Drive to prescribed times.

You can't be expected to Stop driving for say 45 minutes rest when your only 2 Hours into a four and half hour Journey if your client has a Plane to catch just because your driving times up, If we did so we would never be permitted to take on runs over a certain distance or duration

Coaches and Lorries tend to adhere to Pre Defined Routes which allows for such controlled stops...But in a Taxi or a Hack the routes are much more fluid and you just never know until the punter jumps in or changes their destinations mid route for whatever reason where their final destination is.

That's why we need more driver time flexibility than either Truck or Coach drivers.

By all means Cap the Working week to something realistically sensible but you can't start carving up our driving day into small chunks like the Truckers and Coach Drivers do or it would all fall apart at the seems...your next run wont be to happy if you run out of time before you collect them.


Why would you have to stop after two hours for 45 minutes?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:14 pm 
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toots wrote:

Why would you have to stop after two hours for 45 minutes?

Probably because he had been sat around for 3 hours waiting for the job or he had been doing other taxi jobs for 3 hours when the punter got in to go on the jong jaunt meaning the driver was legally required to take a break after 2 hours of the journey.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:02 pm 
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toots wrote:
I’ve never understood why it’s ok for taxi/private hire drivers to work such long hours without proper breaks

It's because they can, and quite often the spivs rely on them working crazy hours.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:23 am 
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Report Presentation to Parliament 13/11/18


https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Ind ... ac871591c9

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:44 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Report Presentation to Parliament 13/11/18


https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Ind ... ac871591c9

Having watched the whole debate I'm struck by the general (all party) support to getting cross border sorted out, one way or another.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:22 am 
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Don't know if these links will work, but they're for anyone who wants to download a file of the meeting to their hard drive or whatever. In any case the links will expire in 24 hours.

If these links don't work it's easy enough to download them yourself via Sussex's link above - just put in a Start Time of 14:30, and End Time of 16:00.

The video is 739MB, the audio-only file just 42MB.

I went for the audio-only download, because I use Bluetooth via my phone to access the internet, and the video was going to take more than two hours, while the audio file took little more than 5 minutes. But if you have a reasonable broadband connection then the video file of 739MB shouldn't take too long.

Audio-only (42MB)
https://parliamentlive.tv/Download/Inde ... 24880abc68

Video (739MB)
https://parliamentlive.tv/Download/Inde ... d6585af0b8


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:54 pm 
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https://www.taxidefencebarristers.co.uk ... recording/



Quote:
As a starting point, capturing a person’s movements on camera is accepted as particularly intrusive and as such subject to strict data protection rules and human rights law. The legislation referred to specifies that information captured and processed via CCTV must, among other things, be necessary and proportionate.

When a taxi or private hire driver is working, clearly the use of CCTV would be proportionate and arguably necessary in light of its purpose; to combat crime, to protect drivers and vulnerable passengers. However, when a taxi or private hire driver is off duty, the continued use of CCTV recording is likely to be unlawful, unfair and excessive in light of data protection and human rights legislation.

The ICO’s view is that in most instances, continuous recording CCTV systems in taxis and private hire vehicles are unlawful. Licensed holders need to take steps to protect themselves from complaints of excessive use of CCTV systems in their licensed vehicles. The use of CCTV in taxis must be limited to instances where it is necessary and proportionate. As such, CCTV should only be recording when you are working and switched off then you are off duty.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:32 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
grandad wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Recommendation 11

Government should legislate that all taxi and PHV journeys should start and/or end within the area for which the driver, vehicle and operator (PHV and taxi – see recommendation 6) are licensed. Appropriate measures should be in place to allow specialist services such as chauffeur and disability transport services to continue to operate cross border. Operators should not be restricted from applying for and holding licences with multiple authorities, subject to them meeting both national standards and any additional requirements imposed by the relevant licensing authority.


That will go down like a sack of poo in a few Boardrooms.

We have many jobs that don't start or end in our area, they can't also be classed as executive type work so where would that leave us? for instance, the borough boundary is only 6 miles from our base in 2 directions and we take many passengers from villages just over the border to airports or weddings or nights out. Will we not be able to do this any more?


The recommendation is essentially how it works in Scotland - you can do work to and from an other area, but you can't hang around in another area waiting for work or base cars in another area.

Not sure about work between two areas outside the licensing area - have heard some claim over the years that it's not allowed, but have never felt the inclination to actually find out for sure. But suspect if it isn't allowed then transgressions are one off and not widespread, and probably little in the way of enforcement action.


It would be fair to offer customers from anywhere in the UK the option to use whoever they want to use and from where ever to where ever they choose to go providing it's prebooked, I think these think tanks are confusing opportunistic cross border PH operators who are loitering with the sole intent of stealing local work from others with the right of the public to use whatever PH company they prefer.

Why pick on the PH trade, If i chose to order say Luxury shaving soap from a supplier in Kent to be delivered by post to my Cousin in Leeds it does not create an issue, yet if someone in Kent wants to book their favourite PH driver in Essex to take them to Leeds it would be illegal even though the Driver would no be seeking to find other work on route.

Why the hell should the customers freedom of choice apply differently to our Retail sector as it does any other retail market?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:31 pm 
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I sort of get the 'we should be able to follow our customers' issue, however it has got out of hand down here with 1000s of vehicles now working away, in many cases far away, from their licensing areas.

This has safety concerns IMO.

However if parliament could incorporate a 'waiting' out of area prohibition, then maybe that could help those small companies that target a different kind of market to the rest of us.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:36 pm 
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Sussex wrote:

However if parliament could incorporate a 'waiting' out of area prohibition, then maybe that could help those small companies that target a different kind of market to the rest of us.

Do you mean that if i take someone to heathrow and an hour or 2 later I have a pick up at Heathrow then i would not be able to wait?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:45 pm 
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grandad wrote:
Sussex wrote:

However if parliament could incorporate a 'waiting' out of area prohibition, then maybe that could help those small companies that target a different kind of market to the rest of us.

Do you mean that if i take someone to heathrow and an hour or 2 later I have a pick up at Heathrow then i would not be able to wait?

No.

Waiting for an existing booking would, in my imaginary act, be fine. Waiting for a fresh booking would not.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:53 pm 
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Think these are the relevant provisions in the Scottish legislation. Subsection (1) basically says you need a licence to work in a particular area, while (2) provides exemptions for cars licensed in another area.

It's clear as mud, but essentially I think it would accommodate Grandad's scenario, but wouldn't allow cars to hang around out-of-area waiting on bookings to come through, ie it would prohibit what's causing headaches in England.

Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982 wrote:
21 Offences.

(1) If any person—

(a) operates, or permits the operation of, a taxi within an area in respect of which its operation requires to be but is not licensed or the driver requires to be but is not licensed, or

(b) picks up passengers in, or permits passengers to be picked up by, a private hire car within an area in respect of which its operation requires to be but is not licensed or the driver requires to be but is not licensed,

that person shall be guilty of an offence and liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding [F1level 4 on the standard scale].

(2) Subsection (1) above does not apply to the operation of a taxi or private hire car within an area in respect of which its operation or its driver is not licensed if the request for its hiring was received by its driver [F2(otherwise than in a public place from the person to be conveyed in it, or a person acting on his behalf, for a journey beginning there and then)] whilst—

(a) in the area or in that part thereof in respect of which its operation and its driver are licensed;

(b) engaged on hire on a journey which began in that area or part or will end there; or

(c) returning to that area or part immediately following completion of a journey on hire.


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1982/45/section/21


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