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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:07 pm 
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Erewash cabbies in row with council over ‘tinted’ taxi windows

https://www.ilkestonadvertiser.co.uk/ne ... -1-9372098

Taxi drivers in Erewash have launched a petition to voice ‘concerns and discontent’ over a stringent policy they say is leaving drivers thousands of pounds out of pocket.

Erewash Borough Council has a rule for private and public hire taxis that means a minimum of 70 per cent of light should be allowed through vehicle windows.

This almost presents a total ban on tinted windows.

The authority says this policy is to protect the safety of passengers, particularly children and the vulnerable.

However, several cabbies, 48 in total, have lodged a petition which calls on the council to axe the restrictions on tinted windows.

The petition states that the policy is often overlooked and drivers are issued licenses for vehicles with tinted windows, with the intention to run them for the maximum period of 10 years – at which point the driver must obtain a new vehicle.

However, the petitioning cabbies state that many of these drivers have been told retrospectively about the tinted window policy, which ‘in some cases can cost [them] up to £4,000’.

The petition states: “In this current financial climate this is impossible for drivers to afford.”

It continues to say: “A lot of drivers are finding it harder purchasing certain cars as they come with tints fitted as standard by the manufacturer. As an example, a driver recently purchased a new car which cost him £1,000 more than the equivalent model which had tinted windows. This seems to be the drivers picking up the cost.

“We are asking the council to allow any new vehicles to be licensed that have manufacturers tinted windows fitted.”

The petition also states that taxis from other council areas often pick up and drop off passengers within Erewash, some of which are fitted with tinted windows due to differing policies between authorities.

The petitioning cabbies feel that it is unfair.

Erewash Borough Council says that because the cabbies who signed the petition only represent 19 per cent of all those in the area – with 257 Hackney and private hire drivers in total – that it is ‘inappropriate’ to consider a policy change without consulting the remaining members who did not sign.

Council officers have now sent the petition to all licensed drivers in Erewash to ask for comments, along with the policy, county council and the Society of Motor Manufacturers.

On Thursday, October 4, borough councillors will decide on whether to consider these further responses, make a decision on the spot or request that further comments are requested from other sources.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:10 pm 
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The petition also states that taxis from other council areas often pick up and drop off passengers within Erewash, some of which are fitted with tinted windows due to differing policies between authorities.

The petitioning cabbies feel that it is unfair.


Aren't there lots of Erewash-plated cars working cross-border elsewhere?

Obviously not the fault of the drivers actually working in Erewash but, oh, the irony :lol:

And also ironic that drivers seem to be going to Erewash because it's easier to get licensed, yet we're being told that the tinted glass policy is mega-stringent :shock:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:15 am 
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There cannot be a local bye-law or regulation that is more stringent than national law.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:21 pm 
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roythebus wrote:
There cannot be a local bye-law or regulation that is more stringent than national law.

Almost right, a Bylaw (or Bye Law - both spellings are correct) cannot be made that is repugnant to the General Law. It can however, be more stringent.

You can't have a Bylaw that says Licensed Vehicles can do 40 mph in a 30 mph zone - that would be repugnant to the General Law.

You can have a Bylaw that says you must inform the LA if you get a speeding fine - even if it is in another Manor in a private vehicle. That is more stringent than the General Law, but not repugnant to it.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:01 pm 
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The words 'mountains' and 'molehills' spring to mind with all this ](*,)

Derbyshire taxis 'take children to places where they are abused'

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/derbys ... es-2521837

The claim has been made by the county's police

Taxis in Erewash are being used to transport children to places where they are being abused, it has been claimed.

Derbyshire police raised the issue in a report published by Erewash Borough Council which sought views on potential changes to the authority’s tinted taxi window policy.

Last year, 48 Erewash cabbies signed a petition calling on the council to drop its existing tinted window policy.

This requires all Hackney and private hire vehicles to have a windscreen that allow at least 75 per cent of light to pass through and 70 per cent through all other windows.

The cabbies who signed the petition said that they had “concerns” about the policy, claiming that it leaves drivers thousands of pounds out of pocket.

The police’s community safeguarding team for the south division, which covers Erewash, said: “There is a clear risk in allowing tinted windows in the rear of taxis in relation to children at risk of exploitation, sexually or drug related, as well as addressing the safety of the drivers and passengers by ensuring those within the vehicles are clearly visible.

“There are concerns that in the reports we see across the division, there are mention of taxis being used for the transportation of children at risk of exploitation to the locations where they are abused.”

Cabbies have said that many of the car models that, of those which can be used as taxis, come with tinted windows fitted by the manufacturer.

This then requires drivers to pay more money to have different windows fitted.

The borough council says that the policy is in place to maintain the safety and welfare of passengers - specifically to minimise the risk to vulnerable children and adults.

Drivers stated in the petition that they all have enhanced DBS checks - criminal record background checks.

They asked the council whether there had ever been an incident or accident caused by a taxi having tinted windows.

The council has said: “Although the council does not hold this type of specific information there have been allegations by members of the public concerning the inappropriate conduct of taxi drivers licensed by the council.

“In one case, a driver was investigated by the police for making lewd and suggestive comments about young girls.

“In another case a driver received a suspended prison sentence, was placed on the sex offenders register and ordered by the court to refrain from driving taxis following conviction for an offence involving a 20 year old woman.

“In another case a driver made a lone female passenger feel uncomfortable due to lewd comments and physical contact.

“Whilst it is not known if any of these incidents occurred in taxis fitted with or without tinted windows they demonstrate the need for the council to remain vigilant and to take all reasonable steps to minimise perceived risks to passenger safety and welfare.”

Officers from Derbyshire County Council also addressed the risk posed by taxis having tinted windows.

A member of the specialist transport services team said: “There is no reason why a licenced vehicle should require tinted glass and given that some vulnerable service users are transported without a passenger assistant on board, it is essential that parents/carers, the public, other road users and the schools/day centres can clearly see into the rear of the licenced vehicle where passengers are sat.

“There is also the safety aspect of people being able to see that service users are secured in the vehicle either with a seat belt, child seat (if they are small or have a disability), or in a wheelchair.”

Neither the county council or police support withdrawing the policy of not allowing heavily tinted windows, while the borough council says that if it were to be changed, it may face “reputational damage” and a surge in challenges from drivers who have already paid out for compliant windows.

Last year, the petitioning cabbies claimed that many drivers were granted licenses for their vehicles and were then retrospectively told that their vehicles’ windows are not up to code.

The council had become aware of one of these incidents in October 2017.

It then made the alarming discovery that, in total, 29 Hackney cabs and seven private hire vehicles (15 per cent of the borough’s fleet) had been licensed with “non-compliant” windows.

To combat the issue, the council has now purchased a tintometer to provide accurate light transmission measurements through windows.

The lobbying drivers also felt it was unfair that taxis from other local authorities, which do not have the same restrictions on tinted windows, are able to operate in Erewash.

In response, the borough council said that this was due to a lack of national standards to restrict the policy.

Borough council officers also queried the added cost drivers say they face due to changing tinted windows pre-fitted by manufacturers.

The authority said it had consulted the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders and found that tinted glass was usually an optional extra fitted a cost of £200-300 per window.

Petitioning drivers said that the policy can see cabbies forking out £4,000 for replacing non-compliant windows.

However, other drivers who contacted the council said that this cost was between £200 and £1,000.

In October, the borough council stated that because the number of drivers who signed the petition was not a large enough proportion of the overall number of licensed drivers (19 per cent), it could not consider a policy change without more signatories.

It re-consulted and found that, of those who responded and including those that had signed the petition, 69 out of 257 drivers (27 per cent) supported a move to drop the tinted window policy.

Next week’s licensing and public protection committee meeting will decide whether to continue with the current policy or to drop it entirely - as requested by the petition.

What is the tinted window policy in other Derbyshire council areas?

Amber Valley - the nationally-set standard for 75 per cent of light through the windscreen, but no other restrictions on other windows

Bolsover and North East Derbyshire - No restrictions if the vehicle is private hire only or a limousine. If darkened glass is fitted it is not permitted for the vehicle to be used to carry children/young people under 18, unless accompanied by an adult.

Chesterfield - the nationally-set standard for 75 per cent of light through the windscreen, but no other restrictions on other windows

Derby City - only manufacturer fitted tints are permitted. The operator is required to notify the customer if a vehicle with darkened glass is being provided.

Derbyshire Dales - minimum visible light transmission value for all windows, other than the windscreen, of 50 per cent is permitted.

South Derbyshire - the nationally-set standard for 75 per cent of light through the windscreen, but no other restrictions on other windows.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:03 pm 
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It then made the alarming discovery that, in total, 29 Hackney cabs and seven private hire vehicles (15 per cent of the borough’s fleet) had been licensed with “non-compliant” windows.

To combat the issue, the council has now purchased a tintometer to provide accurate light transmission measurements through windows.

We should all be thankful for the council purchasing a 'tintometer' after that 'shocking' discovery.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:51 am 
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“There is a clear risk in allowing tinted windows in the rear of taxis in relation to children at risk of exploitation, sexually or drug related, as well as addressing the safety of the drivers and passengers by ensuring those within the vehicles are clearly visible.

“There are concerns that in the reports we see across the division, there are mention of taxis being used for the transportation of children at risk of exploitation to the locations where they are abused.”

And the evidence for that is exactly what?

Have children been taken to such places deliberately in cabs with tinted glass, or as the glass is currently banned has there been a reduction in children being taken to such places over areas where they allow tinted glass?

In short it's all a load of bollocks.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:54 am 
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It re-consulted and found that, of those who responded and including those that had signed the petition, 69 out of 257 drivers (27 per cent) supported a move to drop the tinted window policy.

Typical civil service abuse of stats.

The correct answer is 100% of drivers who expressed a view wanted the ban removed.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:19 pm 
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Location: Stamford Britains prettiest town till SKDC ruined it
the question should be why are Erewash drivers all buying cars with tinted windows ? hardly any round here and if you go to a second hand car lot probably 90 percent or more don't have them :wink: :-k

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:24 pm 
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edders23 wrote:
the question should be why are Erewash drivers all buying cars with tinted windows ?

Because most new vehicles come with rear tinted windows.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:36 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
edders23 wrote:
the question should be why are Erewash drivers all buying cars with tinted windows ?

Because most new vehicles come with rear tinted windows.


Generally quite a light tint, though? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't *all* car windows tinted these days, but obviously not to a significant degree. Remember about the time I passed my test tinted windows in a car were one of these things to die for, and generally only on better specced models or as optional extra, but now the norm?

Can't say I ever really notice standard production cars with noticeably tinted back windows, except for the odd MPV with noticeably blackened ones - more towards what's called privacy glass?

Anyway, obviously it all depends on the precise local rules and the degree of tinting, so without access to a 'tintometer' it's probably easier not to say too much.

But suspect trade making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill of one or two unfortunate cases, and the council/police etc doing likewise with regard to how they've reacted.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:32 am 
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Quote:
Generally quite a light tint, though?

Gov regs allow a light tint to all windows, although now many, if not most, of the new vehicles out there have a heavier tint for the two back windows and the rear windscreen.

Actually caught me out a few cars back when I bought a new car and only realised it's back windows had the heavy tint when I was driving it down to be licensed. Thankfully the council changed their policy of no heavy rear tints soon after. :roll:

But in respect of the safety point, I would ask any council dept, only police force, anybody anywhere, to show any actual evidence that dodgy taxi and PH drivers are using vehicles with blacked out rear windows to aid their wrong doings.

I have never seen any evidence, only evidence of numpty councils, numpty police, and numpty anybodies thinking something might be happening so they will ban it.

Bad stuff has happened, possibly still happening, but tinted rear windows isn't the problem.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:46 pm 
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There's a video on the website, which looks like one of the councillors talking about the policy, but didn't watch it in case I lost the will to live ](*,)

Fears over taxi link to child abuse triggers council action

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/l ... se-2556293

It wants to 'minimise the risk of heinous crimes'

A petition calling for Erewash cabbies to be allowed to have fully-tinted windows in their taxis has been rejected over fears that vehicles could be used to enable the abuse of vulnerable children and adults.

In total, 48 cabbies had signed a petition calling for Erewash Borough Council to drop its policy of only allowing windows to have a slight tint.

In a council report on the issue, Derbyshire police made the claim that taxis in Erewash are being used to transport kids to places where they are being abused.

The borough council says that the policy on tinted windows is in place to maintain the safety and welfare of passengers – specifically to minimise the risk to vulnerable children and adults.

The authority had asked more taxi drivers for their views and support to drop the policy rose to 69 out of the 257 licensed cars in the borough.

Erewash’s current policy requires all Hackney and private hire vehicles to have a windscreen that allow at least 75 per cent of light to pass through and 70 per cent through all other windows.

The petitioning drivers said that this often leaves them hundreds or thousands of pounds out of pocket to make their vehicles meet the specification.

This, they say, is often because many vehicles come pre-fitted with tinted windows.

Neither the county council nor the police want cabs to have fully-tinted windows.

The borough council says that if it changed its policy, it may face “reputational damage” and a surge in challenges from drivers who have already paid for compliant windows.

At a meeting of the authority’s licensing and public protection, councillors unanimously agreed to maintain the current policy.

Nick Thurstan, the authority’s head of environment and housing services, said: “These are very serious offences we are talking about and the council’s policy is proactive and precautionary, to minimise the possibility of heinous crimes.

“There have been complaints about taxi driver behaviour and we have provided some examples of these.

“So to say that Erewash is absolutely fine in this area is an incorrect fact.

“These instances underline the need for the council to retain the policy and to remain vigilant, and that it should take all possible steps to maintain that.”

Councillor Frank Phillips had concerns about the policy, saying: “I feel the council is being unreasonable if it is asking for more than the law allows.

“Cars are often fitted with tinted windows as standard. My wife recently bought a Toyota Yaris and it came with tinted windows.

“There are retrofit stickers which people can put on, but these would never beat the legal standard and police would just ask those to be taken off.

“When cars are being fitted as standard with tinted windows I feel it is totally unacceptable to demand more than the law allows.”

Current national standards under the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 state that windscreens must allow at least 75 per cent of light to pass through and that front driver-side windows must allow at least 70 per cent.

There are no legal standards for the back seat windows or rear windows.

Cllr John Frudd said: “I am into preventing child exploitation and modern slavery, and it is known that taxis are one of the main contributors to modern day slavery – so I would say the council’s policy is correct.

“I think taxi drivers should probably be lobbying manufacturers through their industry body, because if there are types of vehicles more suited to taxis then manufacturers could be encouraged to make sure these are fitted with compliant windows as standard.”

Chairing the meeting, Cllr Jonathan Wright, said: “I have contacted a range of manufacturers and it is usually a no cost option when ordering a car to state that you do not want tinted windows.”

The borough council consulted the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders and found that tinted glass was usually an optional extra fitted a cost of £200-300 per window.

Petitioning drivers said that the policy can see cabbies forking out £4,000 for replacing non-compliant windows.

Cllr Howard Griffiths said: “Our town (Long Eaton) is filled with CCTV and the fact that taxis could have tinted windows would mean that those cameras would be useless.

“It is in the interest of the safety of the passengers and the drivers.

“Lots of people are vulnerable in the back of taxis, particularly if they have gone out to have a few drinks, including people you usually wouldn’t class as vulnerable.

“This policy gives us a fighting chance of being able to police how drivers treat their passengers and how passengers treat their drivers.

“I see no possible reason why anyone would need to have tinted windows – they should expect supervision.”

Following the decision, Cllr Wright said: “I think today’s meeting reiterates Erewash Borough Council’s stance and strong feelings on protecting residents that are riding in taxis.

“The window tinting proposal that was put forward by the taxi drivers was unfortunately not acceptable, but we believe as a council that you should be able to see into the back of taxis.

“This will safeguard residents and make taxis as safe as can be to travel in.”


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:49 pm 
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Cllr John Frudd said: “I am into preventing child exploitation and modern slavery, and it is known that taxis are one of the main contributors to modern day slavery – so I would say the council’s policy is correct.


Yes, banning tinted windows in cabs will sort modern slavery out ](*,)

Quote:
Cllr Howard Griffiths said: “Our town (Long Eaton) is filled with CCTV and the fact that taxis could have tinted windows would mean that those cameras would be useless.


Yes, lots of examples around of fixed CCTV footage looking into the back of taxis. Not. ](*,)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:31 pm 
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Cllr John Frudd said: “I am into preventing child exploitation and modern slavery, and it is known that taxis are one of the main contributors to modern day slavery –

Can't believe someone actually voted for that numpty to be a councillor. ](*,)

Where is there any evidence to support this numpty's point that we, as a trade, are a main contributor to modern day slavery?

F***ing idiot. [-(

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