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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:17 pm 
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This was in the Times a few days ago - if the DfT sources are correct then the most concrete evidence yet that legislation will be introduced to stop cross-border working?

Abuse scandals prompt rogue cabbie crackdown

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abus ... -x956hm292

A purge on rogue minicab drivers will be launched after the child exploitation scandals in towns such as Rochdale and Rotherham.

The Times understands that new legislation will create national standards to improve passenger safety. The Department for Transport (DfT) is also planning to prevent drivers from working away from the area where they hold a licence. Other measures may include setting up a database of drivers whose licences have been refused or revoked, and compulsory CCTV cameras.

It follows the publication of a government-backed review into the industry after a number of sexual exploitation scandals involving young girls being groomed, and in which minicab and taxi drivers were heavily implicated.

The report warned that existing laws governing the industry were “inconsistent, ineffective and incompatible with the protection of vulnerable people and must not be allowed to continue”.

The inquiry, led by Professor Mohammed Abdel-Haq of Bolton University, told how the licensing of cars and individual drivers was devolved to 293 separate councils in England, with “significant variation in both policy and practice”. There has been a big rise in taxis and minicabs licensed in England, with vehicles increasing by 26 per cent between 2011 and last year to a record 281,000. The vast majority were minicabs, which have to be booked and cannot be hailed on the street.

Licensing officers in Rochdale were said to have warned that efforts to tackle sexual exploitation had been undermined by the number of drivers working under licences issued by neighbouring Rossendale council, where a “lower standard” was applied.

An investigation by The Times this year found that for at least six months until the summer of 2016 Rossendale renewed scores of taxi licences without knowing drivers’ up-to-date criminal records. The town, which had 75 taxi rank spaces, licensed more than 3,700 drivers last year, with drivers convicted of offences in areas such as York, Milton Keynes and Manchester.

It was also revealed that Birmingham council handed out licences to criminals with convictions for drug dealing, child abuse, assault and burglary.

DfT sources said that the government would work on plans to “cut the number of drivers operating miles away from where they are licensed”. The report called for legislation to ensure that all journeys should start or end in the area where the driver or vehicle was licensed. A database of drivers whose licences have been refused or revoked, a system developed by the Local Government Association, will be made mandatory for all councils.

A DfT source said: “We have seen too many examples where taxi and minicab drivers have been able to use their job to prey on vulnerable people, especially women and girls. Some local authorities have shown they have lower standards and are being exploited by drivers. The government will step in to make sure higher standards are applied across the country to ensure the people driving these vehicles are fit to do so.”


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:25 pm 
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DfT sources said that the government would work on plans to “cut the number of drivers operating miles away from where they are licensed”

That would be a good start, although I'm not sure putting the word 'miles' is needed.

A simple not in their licensing area would suffice.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:52 am 
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Sussex wrote:
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DfT sources said that the government would work on plans to “cut the number of drivers operating miles away from where they are licensed”

That would be a good start, although I'm not sure putting the word 'miles' is needed.

A simple not in their licensing area would suffice.


Would or should this include removing the historic right of Hackney Carriage drivers to do prebooked work outside their licensing area, and if not why not ?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:12 pm 
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Midlife martyr wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Quote:
DfT sources said that the government would work on plans to “cut the number of drivers operating miles away from where they are licensed”

That would be a good start, although I'm not sure putting the word 'miles' is needed.

A simple not in their licensing area would suffice.


Would or should this include removing the historic right of Hackney Carriage drivers to do prebooked work outside their licensing area, and if not why not ?



Not every part of the country is the same for instance we are less than a mile from 3 county borders. nearly 90 percent of the surrounding villages to our town are in different counties the effect of what you are suggesting would mean that people living in a village 2 miles away whose main school is in a neighbouring village also 2 miles out of the town would have to fetch a taxi from 12 miles away to do a transfer between the two tripling the price of their journey

This legislation has been badly thought through and will cause untold problems and in our area would lead to a race to see who dares to break the law the most. It will also jack up prices to customers and lead to severe hardship for many as well as making it impossible for the airport transfer market

If drivers in our area stuck to the rules we would lose a third of our income as only the town itself and a narrow strip leading out are actually in SK

The consumer has the right to choose not be forced to use a taxi from a particular town simply because of geography. Trains buses and aircraft are not restricted by geography so why should we

A far more sensible approach would be to limit cars from working more than 50 miles from their home address or base for both start and drop

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:15 pm 
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Midlife martyr wrote:
Would or should this include removing the historic right of Hackney Carriage drivers to do prebooked work outside their licensing area, and if not why not ?

I think it would have to include hackneys as well.

Not sure it would stop hackneys doing prebooked work outside of their area, just that the job would have to finish or start within it.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:19 pm 
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Not every part of the country is the same for instance we are less than a mile from 3 county borders. nearly 90 percent of the surrounding villages to our town are in different counties the effect of what you are suggesting would mean that people living in a village 2 miles away whose main school is in a neighbouring village also 2 miles out of the town would have to fetch a taxi from 12 miles away to do a transfer between the two tripling the price of their journey

That's always the problem to the start or finish proposals.

I think an answer is to allow councils to opt out of that proposal if the local circumstances are as you outline.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:05 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
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Not every part of the country is the same for instance we are less than a mile from 3 county borders. nearly 90 percent of the surrounding villages to our town are in different counties the effect of what you are suggesting would mean that people living in a village 2 miles away whose main school is in a neighbouring village also 2 miles out of the town would have to fetch a taxi from 12 miles away to do a transfer between the two tripling the price of their journey

That's always the problem to the start or finish proposals.

I think an answer is to allow councils to opt out of that proposal if the local circumstances are as you outline.


unworkable the only solution would be to allow hackneys and PH to do jobs starting or finishing either in their district or within X miles of their district. This is simply to please a few councils and the insurance companies it has no benefit whatsoever to consumers

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:57 pm 
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Why would it affect insurance companies? Insurance is not only country wide but Europe wide. H&R insurance does not usually cover European work, but otherwise UK insurance automatically covers third party liability in the EU at the moment.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:11 pm 
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roythebus wrote:
Why would it affect insurance companies? Insurance is not only country wide but Europe wide. H&R insurance does not usually cover European work, but otherwise UK insurance automatically covers third party liability in the EU at the moment.



Because insurance companies have DIFFERENT rates according to where you work and were losing money people insuring at an address in rural greenfieldshire and then working in Londinium, Burmingham or Madchester

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:26 pm 
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The report called for legislation to ensure that all journeys should start or end in the area where the driver or vehicle was licensed.



They still haven't a clue, If I had a regular client that booked me to take them from say Edinburgh to Essex although I live in neither of those two areas I'd be quite within my right to take them on a pre-booked basis as the booked it with myself and through my operating area...that's how the Free Market works.

If I couldn't do so then these clients would have to book a Taxi from either Edinburgh or from Essex and deny them use of their preferred Taxi or PH driver who lives elsewhere.

Are they referring to Hacks and Hacking outwith their own area? and not PH that can be booked to take you anywhere and from anywhere that you want to go?

As edders says it is denying the customer their freedom of choice of who they want to use, Cross Border working is not the same as toting for work outwith your own area by sitting waiting for work in another licensing area


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:16 am 
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edders23 wrote:

A far more sensible approach would be to limit cars from working more than 50 miles from their home address or base for both start and drop

Well that is us stuffed for all airports and sea ports except east midlands airport.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:55 pm 
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What about WAV access for the disabled - I get calls to pick up out of my manor and drop at hospitals also out of my area.

Zero WAV's in the area I pick up from and even if they had some, compelling only stands good at a Rank, WAV Drivers don't have to take bookings.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:59 pm 
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Chris the Fish wrote:
What about WAV access for the disabled - I get calls to pick up out of my manor and drop at hospitals also out of my area.

Maybe WAV bookings will be exempt.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:10 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Chris the Fish wrote:
What about WAV access for the disabled - I get calls to pick up out of my manor and drop at hospitals also out of my area.

Maybe WAV bookings will be exempt.



You really don't get it M this is badly conceived and ill thought out knee jerk reaction to a few councils moaning it will create 10 times as many problems as it will solve

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:25 pm 
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You really don't get it M this is badly conceived and ill thought out knee jerk reaction to a few councils moaning it will create 10 times as many problems as it will solve

I do get it, and despite what you say (and I'm not disagreeing with what you say) you will be collateral damage as the problems you outline are not safety problems, they are commercial problems.

The cross border rule is a safety issue that needs sorting.

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