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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:40 pm 
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Sometimes don't bother reading articles about trouble near taxi ranks unless a driver is involved, but because this looks like a murder investigation and it's a rank I worked once upon a time, then worth highlighting :-|

(Although at the moment police treating it as 'unexplained' death.)

‘Row kicked off at front of taxi queue’ prior to death of man in Dundee city centre

https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/fp/r ... ty-centre/

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/lo ... -his-life/

Image
Image: DC Thomson

A man who died following a “disturbance” just an hour into the New Year may have been killed during a row over a taxi, it was claimed today.

The man, who has not yet been identified by police, was found seriously injured at a cab rank in Dundee’s Nethergate, in the city centre.

He was rushed to hospital and later succumbed to his injuries and a probe was launched by Police Scotland’s Major Investigations Team.

Detectives have appealed for information in identifying the man, who is described as a white man, aged in his 40s or 50s with short ginger hair.

At the time of the incident he was wearing a two tone light and dark blue Berghaus rain jacket, faded denim jeans and dark brown shoes along with a distinctive silver Cartier watch with gold studs.

He is known to have arrived at the scene of the incident from the area of Whitehall Crescent and Union Street, Dundee.

Locals said there had been a “good atmosphere” in the Nethergate area on Hogmanay – with bars yards from the scene packed with happy revellers.

A disturbance later erupted beside a taxi rank opposite the Trades Bar in Nethergate, where the man was later found fatally injured.

Image
Image: DC Thomson

The scene remained taped off with cordons manned by uniformed officers on Tuesday.

What appeared to be smashed glass and staining to the pavement around the head of the taxi rank queuing area could be seen at the centre of the cordoned off area.

Witnesses have claimed the disturbance was triggered by an argument in the queue for taxis shortly after the bells.

One said a group of three people – two men and woman – had assaulted several people in the taxi queue and then attacked the man when he tried to intervene.

One taxi driver, who asked not to be named, said: “I’ve been told that a row kicked off at the front of the queue – there were a couple of groups involved.

“It looked like the usual thing – people arguing over who was first – and this guy got caught in the middle of it.”

Another driver added: “It isn’t clear if the guy who died was with any of the people who were arguing or if he just got caught up in the disturbance.”

However, police have only said they are treating the death as “unexplained”.

Image
Image: DC Thomson

Police said emergency services were called to the area around 1.15am following a report of a disturbance involving a group of people.

Detective Inspector Ross Fitzgerald, of Police Scotland’s Major Investigations Team, said: “We know that a number of people were in the area around the time of this incident, which happened on Nethergate close to the Overgate Shopping Centre.

“We would ask anyone who witnessed any disturbance or who has any other information which could assist the police investigation to come forward if you haven’t already spoken to an officer.

“A police presence is likely to be maintained in the area for some time while enquiries continue and the public are thanked for their patience and understanding.”

He added: “I would urge anyone with information which could help identify this man who has sadly died to contact Police Scotland as soon as possible.

“Our enquiries continue into the incident itself and I could also ask anyone who witnessed a disturbance in the Nethergate area or who has any other information which could assist the police investigation to come forward if you haven’t already spoken to an officer.

“Any information can be passed to Police Scotland on 101, quoting incident 516 of January 1, 2018. You can also contact Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111.”


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:59 pm 
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For what it's worth, this is the clearest image demonstrating that it's a taxi rank in the photographs - you can more clearly see the lay-by layout, and the police officer standing on the faded 'TAXIS' marking:

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Image: Press and Journal/DC Thomson/Alan Richardson


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:03 pm 
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Location: 1066 Country
I often wonder if kebab shops, and taxi ranks, are the most dangerous places in the UK.

So many lives have been ruined at those locations. :sad: :sad:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:34 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
I often wonder if kebab shops, and taxi ranks, are the most dangerous places in the UK.

So many lives have been ruined at those locations. :sad: :sad:


They are if your underage and live in live in Rotherham.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:32 am 
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Heard on the ranks earlier that the deceased fell and hit his head on the pavement, resulting in his death.

So he could have been punched, or could have just lost his footing and fallen over in the fracas.

Either way, if that's true then because the cause of death may not be direct violence (like a fatal punch of knifing), then it could be that if anyone is ever charged then that may be for culpable homicide rather than murder (roughly equivalent to manslaughter in England).

Which in turn is maybe why police and press not using phrases like 'murder enquiry' at this stage, and why saying that death simply 'unexplained'.

But no doubt we'll be hearing more in the near future.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:10 am 
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Well it seems like police treating the incident as murder after all. Of course, not unknown for that to happen but a lesser charge eventually brought, either because they know that the lesser charge will increase the chance of conviction, or because the accused will plead guilty to the lesser charge.

But, of course, the full facts will only become clear in time.

Dundee city centre ‘murder’: Teenager arrested

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/lo ... -arrested/

A teenager has been arrested in connection with the death of a man following a disturbance at a Dundee taxi rank an hour into the new year.

The man was seriously hurt in an alleged attack at a cab queue in Dundee’s Nethergate at around 1.15am on January 1.

Police are still working to identify the victim, who is said to be a man in his 40s or 50s and wearing a “distinctive” Cartier watch studded with gold at the time of his death.

Police tonight confirmed the death is being treated as murder and that a 19-year-old man had been arrested in connection with the incident.

[…]


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:45 pm 
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Clearly none of us know exactly what happened, but murder is very hard to prove in the similar situations we have read about in the past.

To murder you must have had the intent/planning to kill or seriously harm someone. Clearly the seriously harm/kill bit has happened, but it's proving the intent that often leads to the lesser charges.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:20 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Clearly none of us know exactly what happened, but murder is very hard to prove in the similar situations we have read about in the past.

To murder you must have had the intent/planning to kill or seriously harm someone. Clearly the seriously harm/kill bit has happened, but it's proving the intent that often leads to the lesser charges.


Well the teenager has been charged and will appear at the Sheriff Court tomorrow, so should know then what the charge is, although won't know much in the way of detail until the case comes to court, either for trial or sentencing.

And the deceased has been identified, but his name won't be released until next of kin informed.

But at least police managed to keep part of the rank open (probably the main rank in Dundee) while the road was closed (second pic below) :-|

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Image: Daily Record/Alan Richardson Pix-AR.co.uk

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Image: BBC


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:25 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Clearly none of us know exactly what happened, but murder is very hard to prove in the similar situations we have read about in the past.

To murder you must have had the intent/planning to kill or seriously harm someone. Clearly the seriously harm/kill bit has happened, but it's proving the intent that often leads to the lesser charges.


Of course, police and prosecutors have to be careful not to overplay their hand in situations like this. Recall a few years ago in Dundee a guy hit another guy, who later died in hospital. Not sure precisely what happened, but he was charged with culpable homicide rather than murder.

But as I recall it (there was not much reporting) a jury found him not guilty.

So because you can't be retried for the same act twice (the double jeopardy rule, I think it's called, although there has been some reform of that in recent years) in effect the accused killed someone and got away with it.

Suspect if the procurator fiscal (the prosecutor up here) had gone for a lesser charge (some sort of assault) then the accused might have at least been found guilty of something.

Of course, in the present case it'll all depend on the evidence etc. There will be CCTV in the area (both public and private), but whether or not they caught the incident is another matter.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:24 pm 
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After reading about the bungled police investigation in Birmingham, couldn't help thinking back to the wheelie bins lying at the top of the taxi rank in Dundee. Were these part of the disturbance (doubt it, somehow), or is that what police are using to protect the crime scene?

Very professional :-s

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Image: DC Thomson

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Image: Press and Journal/DC Thomson/Alan Richardson


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:39 am 
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StuartW wrote:
Heard on the ranks earlier that the deceased fell and hit his head on the pavement, resulting in his death.

So he could have been punched, or could have just lost his footing and fallen over in the fracas.

Either way, if that's true then because the cause of death may not be direct violence (like a fatal punch of knifing), then it could be that if anyone is ever charged then that may be for culpable homicide rather than murder (roughly equivalent to manslaughter in England).


StuartW wrote:
Well it seems like police treating the incident as murder after all. Of course, not unknown for that to happen but a lesser charge eventually brought, either because they know that the lesser charge will increase the chance of conviction, or because the accused will plead guilty to the lesser charge.


Seems I called it right after all - the original charge was murder, but the charge brought in the current High Court trial is culpable homicide [-(


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