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Plymouth drivers' protests force council rethink over fees
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Author:  StuartW [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Plymouth drivers' protests force council rethink over fees
Started a new thread with this because the old one got a bit messy.

Taxi drivers in Plymouth force rethink on fees increase

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/p ... nk-2586208

The size of the rise originally proposed led to noisy protests in Plymouth city centre

Councillors are being given the option to set a lower rise in fees paid by Plymouth taxi drivers after an outcry at the size of a planned increase.

In mid-January the city council published a draft set of new fees for hackney carriage and private hire drivers which in some cases were up by more than 80 per cent.

The size of the rise led to noisy protests by taxi drivers who twice drove in convoy through the city centre to highlight their opposition to the changes.

For hackney drivers, it was proposed that a one-year black cab licence goes from £210 to £342 and a one-year driver’s licence from £112 to £165.

A one-year private hire vehicle licence was proposed to go from £117 to £170, with a one-year driver’s licence going from £82 to £120.

Now officers have come up with alternative proposals including lower increases to the main charges.

Both options will be considered by councillors on the taxi licensing sub-committee on Thursday.

Hackney carriages are the black cabs that pick up from taxi ranks and can be hailed in the street, while private hire taxis have to be booked in advance.

Both categories are licensed and regulated by the city council, and it also sets fares for hackney carriages.

The council service including enforcement has to be self-financing, and the city council says the rises are needed to balance the books.

The new fees are due to come into force on March 1.

Councillors have been told that without an increase the hackney carriage fund will be £92,000 in the red by the end of March.

Even with an increase, fees will have to go up again next year to further reduce the deficit, with the aim of balancing the books in five years.

The private hire account is due to end the year with a small surplus, but the rises are needed to keep it in the black.

The alternative lower set of fees would see a hackney carriage one-year vehicle licence go from £210 to £300 instead of £342, with a one-year driver’s licence up from £112 to £130 instead of £165.

A one-year licence for a private hire vehicle would rise from £117 to £145 instead of £170, with a one-year driver’s licence up from £82 to £110 instead of £120.

There were 82 objections to the original proposals published for consultation in mid-January, with most response saying they were too high, a report to the taxi sub-committee says.

It warns that the alternative set of lower fees leaves a risk of being unable to cover unforeseen costs for example from court cases, and could lead to higher rises in the future.

The report says: “We appreciate that these increases are an additional cost, however the income from the licence fees must cover the expenditure required to run the service.”

It says there has been an increase in complaints, with officers investigating 100 cases against hackney carriage drivers - a rate of 26% of the total 387 drivers.

The figure for private hire was 96 complaints, a rate of 12% of the 803 drivers.

Twelve hackney carriage drivers and 10 private hire drivers had their licences reviewed by councillors as a result of complaints.

The report says there has been a rise in legal costs to the hackney carriage fund from licence review committee hearings, appeals against committee decision and prosecutions, and an “unmet demand” survey due every three years is being carried out this year, costing £16,000.

There is also uncertainty over a legal case involving Wakefield Council in Yorkshire, after the High Court ruled its policy to recover the cost of enforcement action against drivers from the vehicle licence fee was unlawful.

The city council will be reviewing the details of the case, which may go to the Court of Appeal, but says it has acted in line with legal advice when setting its fees.

The original proposed fees for hackney carriages saw a one-year vehicle licence go from £210 to £342, a rise of £132 or 62.9 per cent, working out at an extra £2.54 a week; one-year driver’s licence: £112 to £165 (£53/47.3%/£1.02); three-year driver’s licence: £238 to £435 (£197/82.8%/£1.26).

The alternative new fees include a one-year vehicle licence rising to £300 instead of £342; one-year driver’s licence £130 instead of £165; three-year driver’s licence £330 instead of £435.

For private hire, the original proposed fees saw a one-year vehicle licence go from £117 to £170 (£53/45.3%/£1.02); one-year driver’s licence: £82 to £120 (£38/46.3%/£0.73); three-year driver’s licence: £160 to £300 (£140/87.5%/£0.90).

The alternative new fees include a one year vehicle licence rising to £145 instead of £170; one-year driver’s licence £110 instead of £120; three-year driver’s licence £270 instead of £300.
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Plymouth drivers' protests force council rethink over fe
Quote:
The report says: “We appreciate that these increases are an additional cost, however the income from the licence fees must cover the expenditure required to run the service.”

Why must it?

The law says may, not must or shall.
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Plymouth drivers' protests force council rethink over fe
Quote:
The original proposed fees for hackney carriages saw a one-year vehicle licence go from £210 to £342, a rise of £132 or 62.9 per cent, working out at an extra £2.54 a week; one-year driver’s licence: £112 to £165 (£53/47.3%/£1.02); three-year driver’s licence: £238 to £435 (£197/82.8%/£1.26).

The alternative new fees include a one-year vehicle licence rising to £300 instead of £342; one-year driver’s licence £130 instead of £165; three-year driver’s licence £330 instead of £435.

For private hire, the original proposed fees saw a one-year vehicle licence go from £117 to £170 (£53/45.3%/£1.02); one-year driver’s licence: £82 to £120 (£38/46.3%/£0.73); three-year driver’s licence: £160 to £300 (£140/87.5%/£0.90).

The alternative new fees include a one year vehicle licence rising to £145 instead of £170; one-year driver’s licence £110 instead of £120; three-year driver’s licence £270 instead of £300.

And there was me thinking inflation is 1.8%. [-X
Author:  grandad [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Plymouth drivers' protests force council rethink over fe
Sussex wrote:
Quote:
The report says: “We appreciate that these increases are an additional cost, however the income from the licence fees must cover the expenditure required to run the service.”

Why must it?

The law says may, not must or shall.

Ah, but which law?
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Plymouth drivers' protests force council rethink over fe
grandad wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Why must it?

The law says may, not must or shall.

Ah, but which law?

Section 28 of the Arse Hole End of Nowhere Act.

28.—(1) Subject to the provisions of subsection (2) of this section, the Council may charge such fees for the grant of vehicle and operators' licences as may be resolved by the Council from time to time and as may be sufficient in the aggregate to cover in whole or in part—
Author:  Chris the Fish [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Plymouth drivers' protests force council rethink over fe
Sussex wrote:
Section 28 of the Arse Hole End of Nowhere Act.

28.—(1) Subject to the provisions of subsection (2) of this section, the Council may charge such fees for the grant of vehicle and operators' licences as may be resolved by the Council from time to time and as may be sufficient in the aggregate to cover in whole or in part—


Which sounds a lot like the Act for the Plebeians who copied it in 1976:

70 Fees for vehicle and operators' licences (1) Subject to the provisions of subsection (2) of this section, a district council may charge such fees for the grant of vehicle and operators' licences as may be resolved by them from time to time and as may be sufficient in the aggregate to cover in whole or in part —

:D
Author:  MR T [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Plymouth drivers' protests force council rethink over fe
Chris the Fish wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Section 28 of the Arse Hole End of Nowhere Act.

28.—(1) Subject to the provisions of subsection (2) of this section, the Council may charge such fees for the grant of vehicle and operators' licences as may be resolved by the Council from time to time and as may be sufficient in the aggregate to cover in whole or in part—


Which sounds a lot like the Act for the Plebeians who copied it in 1976:

70 Fees for vehicle and operators' licences (1) Subject to the provisions of subsection (2) of this section, a district council may charge such fees for the grant of vehicle and operators' licences as may be resolved by them from time to time and as may be sufficient in the aggregate to cover in whole or in part —

:D



How much does a circuit owners licences cost ??
Author:  Chris the Fish [ Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Plymouth drivers' protests force council rethink over fe
MR T wrote:
How much does a circuit owners licences cost ??

Unchanged, at Application £135.00 and £3.80 per vehicle.
Author:  MR T [ Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Plymouth drivers' protests force council rethink over fe
Chris the Fish wrote:
MR T wrote:
How much does a circuit owners licences cost ??

Unchanged, at Application £135.00 and £3.80 per vehicle.
£10 per vehicle would seem fair
Author:  rayggb [ Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Plymouth drivers' protests force council rethink over fe
Wow them there proposed fees are scandalous!
Author:  edders23 [ Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Plymouth drivers' protests force council rethink over fe
why such a big difference between vehicle fees for hackney and PH ?
Author:  Chris the Fish [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Plymouth drivers' protests force council rethink over fe
From the Licensing Manager:

I am writing to update you with regards to the Taxi Licensing Committee Hearing which is being held tomorrow, 28 February, at 10am to review the taxi licensing fees.

At tomorrow’s committee hearing, I will be recommending to the Committee Members that the decision on fees is deferred. This follows the receipt of a letter on the 25 February 2019 raising matters which require the figures to be produced in an alternative format. Due to the fact we have only recently received this letter we will need additional time to prepare this information and this is why the request to defer will be made.

I am therefore writing to advise you that you may still attend the meeting, however Members may decide to defer the decision to an alternative date.

I apologise for any inconvenience this may cause, however we want to ensure we have listened to your responses and provide the Committee Members with all of the information required to fully consider the issues raised.
Author:  edders23 [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Plymouth drivers' protests force council rethink over fe
Chris the Fish wrote:
From the Licensing Manager:

I am writing to update you with regards to the Taxi Licensing Committee Hearing which is being held tomorrow, 28 February, at 10am to review the taxi licensing fees.

At tomorrow’s committee hearing, I will be recommending to the Committee Members that the decision on fees is deferred. This follows the receipt of a letter on the 25 February 2019 raising matters which require the figures to be produced in an alternative format. Due to the fact we have only recently received this letter we will need additional time to prepare this information and this is why the request to defer will be made.

I am therefore writing to advise you that you may still attend the meeting, however Members may decide to defer the decision to an alternative date.

I apologise for any inconvenience this may cause, however we want to ensure we have listened to your responses and provide the Committee Members with all of the information required to fully consider the issues raised.


In other words we are going to wait until the flak dies down and no one is watching before making the decision :roll:
Author:  Chris the Fish [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Plymouth drivers' protests force council rethink over fe
Will get back to you on this Edders.
Author:  Chris the Fish [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Plymouth drivers' protests force council rethink over fe
From the local Paper, The Herald.

Plymouth City Council has put off making a decision on increasing fees for taxi drivers after receiving a legal challenge.

The council’s taxi licensing sub-committee was due to consider a report with two options for raising charges.

But the committee voted to postpone the decision after being told a “legal letter” had been received from drivers earlier in the week.

Details of the letter from the Plymouth Licensed Taxi Drivers Association were not disclosed at the meeting, but it is understood to include a reference to a legal case involving the sector at Wakefield in Yorkshire.

The council is now waiting for the publication of the decision before deciding whether to launch a challenge at the Court of Appeal. Lawyers for the taxi drivers say Wakefield Council has overcharged them by £1m and they will be claiming the money back.

The case is being watched closely by councils across the country, including in Plymouth, where the city council has said it has acted in line with legal advice when The city council says the taxi licensing service has to be self-financing and the increases are needed to balance the books.

Rachael Hind, licensing service manager, told the sub-committee meeting on Thursday morning the council had received a letter from a legal representative of the Plymouth taxi association and officers needed to give it “due consideration”.

Sub-committee chair Chris Mavin said it was “right and proper” to give officers a chance to consider the letter and come back to the committee soon with a report. He proposed delaying consideration of the fee increases, which was backed by councillors.

Christopher Wildman, Assistant Secretary of the Plymouth Licensed Taxi Association, said after the meeting: “The proposed increases are obviously ridiculous. We like the council await the publication of the judgement on Wakefield, and we have taken legal advice.”

The size of the original proposed fee increases in Plymouth of more than 80 per cent in some categories led to noisy protests by taxi drivers who twice drove in convoy through the city centre to highlight their opposition. It is understood that more protests are unlikely while the city council considers the way forward.

For hackney drivers, under the original proposals a one-year black cab licence goes from £210 to £342 and a one-year driver’s licence from £112 to £165.
A one-year private hire vehicle licence was proposed to go from £117 to £170, with a one-year driver’s licence going from £82 to £120.

There were 82 objections to the original fee increases which were published for consultation in mid-January, with most response saying they were too high, a report to the sub-committee said.
Officers came up with an alternative set of fees including lower increases to the main charges and both options were due be considered by councillors at the meeting on Thursday.

A statement from the city council said the increases were proposed to ensure the fees covered the full cost of the licensing service.
It said: “Feelings are running high. This matters to people. We get that.
“We know that we must get this decision right, not just for the taxi trade, but for the people of Plymouth, on whose behalf we licence the industry.
"We therefore require some more time to consider all of the issues involved.
“No one wants to increase fees. But we can’t be in a situation where Council Tax payers are propping up the taxi trade.”
Hackney carriages are the black cabs that pick up from taxi ranks and can be hailed in the street, while private hire taxis have to be booked in advance.
Both categories are licensed and regulated by the city council, and it also sets fares for hackney carriages.
Councillors have been told that without an increase the hackney carriage fund will be £92,000 in the red by the end of March.
Even with an increase, fees will have to go up again next year to further reduce the deficit, with the aim of balancing the books in five years.
The private hire account is due to end the year with a small surplus, but the rises are needed to keep it in the black.

The alternative lower set of fees would see a hackney carriage one-year vehicle licence go from £210 to £300 instead of £342, with a one-year driver’s licence up from £112 to £130 instead of £165.
A one-year licence for a private hire vehicle would rise from £117 to £145 instead of £170, with a one-year driver’s licence up from £82 to £110 instead of £120.
The report warned that the alternative set of lower fees left a risk of being unable to cover unforeseen costs for example from court cases, and could lead to higher rises in the future.
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