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 Post subject: Uber earnings
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:25 pm 
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-50418357


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 Post subject: Re: Uber earnings
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:47 pm 
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well the founder has just pocketed more than half a billion dollars so i doubt he gives a damn nor the rest of the board I suspect as long as there is a queue of pension funds willing to throw all our hard earned cash at the problem

the controversies will go on and on and never be solved

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 Post subject: Re: Uber earnings
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:35 pm 
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I don't have a good attention span for reading long articles, but fiddling about posting them on here actually helps me engage with them and read them, so here's the article :-o


Uber's paradox: Gig work app traps and frees its drivers

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-50418357

On 24 November, after a nervous wait, Uber will learn whether its licence to operate in London is to be renewed.

The impending decision has revived debate over whether the data-driven basis for its business model and the "gig economy" jobs it creates are fair.

A wave of platforms has followed, offering new ways to buy and sell, to rent from and temporarily hire others.

Rather than salaried employees, independent contractors are paid by consumers for a specific job - a "gig".

The platforms in the middle argue they do not employ staff but simply connect customers with people seeking to make money.

Research by the Trades Union Congress (TUC) estimates that one in 10 workers in the UK now regularly does "platform work".

No company is more symbolic of this shift than Uber itself.

As a consequence, it has become a lightning rod for arguments about what gig work really represents.

Does it usher in new, flexible, liberating ways to work, or is it the means for a kind of arms-length control that undermines basic rights?

Abdura Hadi, an Uber driver who has worked on the streets of London for five years, has noticed a change.

"On average, I used to work six-to-eight hours, six days a week to provide for my family" he told me. Now, he adds: "It's 10-to-12 hours."

He's noticed that over the period, the number of Uber drivers has rapidly increased, while the number of pick-up jobs has not kept up.

Increased competition has made a particular part of Uber's platform critical to Mr Hadi and his fellow drivers' earning power - the software that determines who gets each ride.

However, none of them knows how it works.

"My family depends on the algorithm," he explains.

"Sometimes it's scary, but if it was fair, it would be OK."

Minimum wage

At the heart of the controversy around Uber is that the disruption it has brought isn't just economic, but also legal.

Definitions that were once reasonably clear in the workplace have become muddied.

The question of whether Uber drivers are actually employees is currently making its way through the British courts.

Even one of the most basic facts of any job has become disputed: how much Uber drivers actually earn.

"It's a fact that drivers are working on less than minimum wage," claims Mr Hadi.

Yet a recent study co-authored by researchers at Oxford University and Uber, based on administrative data from the company, reported that the median London driver earns about £11 per hour spent logged into the app.

That is just above the London Living Wage.

The study included vehicle operation costs and time spent waiting between rides while logged in.

Data v anecdotes

Ken Jacobs, an academic at University of California, Berkeley, who has studied hidden costs that Uber drivers and other gig workers face, refers to them as the five "major loopholes".

They include:

    - time spent waiting for rides

    - the cost of driving back into busy areas after a ride

    - vehicle maintenance and insurance

    - the lack of payment for sick leave, meal breaks and rest breaks

    - the lack of holiday pay

"They tend to way underestimate the actual expenses a driver incurs," he said.

Meera Joshi, the former head of the New York Taxi and Limousine Commission, the regulator responsible for services like Uber across the city, says data is key.

"Without data you only have anecdotes," she told me.

"You have stories from drivers about low wages, but you have no way to really quantify that."

In perhaps the first move of its kind, Ms Joshi's commission forced Uber to hand over data about its drivers operating in New York.

"What we found out was that conditions were worse than what was described to us by drivers," she said.

"Ninety-six per cent of drivers were making less than the city's minimum wage. Most of the drivers were providing the main source of income for their families."

After the watchdog implemented minimum-wage protections to cover the 80,000 New York drivers involved, an additional $225m (£172m) per month went "back into the pockets of drivers", said Ms Joshi.

As a result, the cash flowed into local neighbourhoods rather than back to San Francisco-based Uber.

'Prison and liberator'

The Oxford paper also claimed that Uber drivers had higher levels of life satisfaction than other workers, but also higher anxiety levels.

"That's the paradox of Uber," commented Duncan McCann, a researcher at the New Economics Foundation.

"It is both a prison and a liberator. You can just switch on the app and start working, but if you have a family to support, it's obviously less flexible. You need to match peaks of demand: rush hours and weekends."

And Uber is just the "tip of the iceberg", he added.

"The majority of gig-economy workers are women, doing care, cleaning.

"Under the water level, you have platforms openly advertising rates beneath minimum wage."

Uber has taken steps to benefit the drivers ahead of the licensing deadline. For example, last week it added a button to their app to let them report racism or other discriminatory behaviour from passengers, who it promises to kick off its platform if the complaint is upheld.

"Drivers are at the heart of our service - we can't succeed without them - and thousands of people come into work at Uber every day focused on how to make their experience better, on and off the road," it said in a statement.

"Whether it's being able to track your earnings or stronger insurance protections, we'll continue working to improve the experience for and with drivers."

But in many ways, the gig economy simply reintroduces very old issues of conditions and rights in the workplace in new ways.

Previous decades saw the struggles of employees to have their rights recognised; now the struggle is one of workers to be recognised as employees at all.

Once the focus was on the power of the owners of the means of production; now it is on the owners of the means to find work via the net.

The new battleground is not over who controls the shop floor, but who controls the data involved. Who has it, and what it reveals.

Whatever happens on 24 November, the wider debate will continue for a long time yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Uber earnings
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:40 pm 
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the trouble is there's nothing new it is a rehash of what we already know

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 Post subject: Re: Uber earnings
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:34 pm 
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edders23 wrote:
the trouble is there's nothing new it is a rehash of what we already know

But then again the article wasn't written for the likes of you and me.

In respect of what drivers earn on Uber, well they can do ok during normal rates, and fill their boots during the surge.

Down here many of the jobs are short around the corner runs, which can be a bit gutty. But they are definitely busy.

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 Post subject: Re: Uber earnings
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:41 am 
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Quote:
But they are definitely busy.


because they are the cheapest :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Uber earnings
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:16 pm 
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edders23 wrote:
the trouble is there's nothing new it is a rehash of what we already know


Do you mean what we know from a couple of years ago, or what we know from 20 years ago, or both?

Suspect it's both. Of course, no apps around twenty years ago, but stuff like this article makes it sound like Uber has reinvented the job and the way the trade works. Not.

Anyway, there's a BBC TV piece associated with the article, which can be found via link below.

Haven't watched it yet, but if article above is anything to go by should be interesting viewing, and it's about the first 11 minutes of the programme here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m ... ig-economy


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 Post subject: Re: Uber earnings
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:38 pm 
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edders23 wrote:
Quote:
But they are definitely busy.


because they are the cheapest :wink:

Not really.

Just that kids and yuppies love apps.

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 Post subject: Re: Uber earnings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:33 am 
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StuartW wrote:
Increased competition has made a particular part of Uber's platform critical to Mr Hadi and his fellow drivers' earning power - the software that determines who gets each ride.

However, none of them knows how it works.

"My family depends on the algorithm," he explains.

"Sometimes it's scary, but if it was fair, it would be OK."


It's probably still fairer than the woman in the dispatch office who sends all the good work to her favourites :D

Sussex wrote:
edders23 wrote:
Quote:
But they are definitely busy.


because they are the cheapest :wink:

Not really.

Just that kids and yuppies love apps.


Those kids aren't going anywhere, however. They don't like talking to people on the phone and pressing a couple of buttons in an app is more intuitive to them when its how they talk to all of their friends too. Add into that the fact that they can use the same app at Uni as they do at home and it becomes the norm to them, personally I don't think they're paying much attention to the costs.

I talk to punters about this all the time. The number 2 reason I get from them (#1 being that they like the app) is that they know when their cab is coming. Yes, other apps show you where the car is, but Uber won't give you a car if there isn't one to give you. "Oh we used blah blah and they said it would be here in 10 mins, 20 mins later and its still not showing on the app". A lot of the trade I do on a Saturday night is from people that came into town in a PH but are now looking for a HC to go home because nobody wants to commit to an honest timeframe, they'd much rather pay a bit more to go home now.


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 Post subject: Re: Uber earnings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:48 pm 
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Quote:
Those kids aren't going anywhere, however. They don't like talking to people on the phone and pressing a couple of buttons in an app is more intuitive to them when its how they talk to all of their friends too. Add into that the fact that they can use the same app at Uni as they do at home and it becomes the norm to them, personally I don't think they're paying much attention to the costs.

I talk to punters about this all the time. The number 2 reason I get from them (#1 being that they like the app) is that they know when their cab is coming. Yes, other apps show you where the car is, but Uber won't give you a car if there isn't one to give you. "Oh we used blah blah and they said it would be here in 10 mins, 20 mins later and its still not showing on the app". A lot of the trade I do on a Saturday night is from people that came into town in a PH but are now looking for a HC to go home because nobody wants to commit to an honest timeframe, they'd much rather pay a bit more to go home now.

I get that but Uber's app is no different than a number of apps used by 100s and 100s of firms in the UK.

But the convenience of using the same app throughout the country is the only advantage, IMO, Uber have.

Which is why more firms should have apps and have shared apps that can be used all over.

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 Post subject: Re: Uber earnings
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:46 am 
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Most other apps will accept a job, quoting a waiting time when there isn't a car available to assign the job to. Often the punter doesn't know there's no car available until they don't get a dispatch text for ages.


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