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Bucks protest against £500 county council contract 'fines' http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35187 |
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Author: | StuartW [ Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:19 am ] |
Post subject: | Bucks protest against £500 county council contract 'fines' |
Have never gotten involved in council contract work myself, but this looks well out of order The full list of 'fines' (aka 'default charges') can be read via the link to the LPHCA's publication below the article. Protest against fines for local taxi and private hire companies https://www.mix96.co.uk/news/local/3002 ... companies/ Image: Mix 96 A petition is being delivered to Buckinghamshire County Council today against the planned new charges put in place for local taxi, private hire, bus and coach companies. A peaceful protest organised by the Licensed Private Hire Car Association is happening outside the council to deliver a petition to stop these changes going ahead. The Bucks County Council contract's Penalty Points and Default Chargers for Poor Performance are a set of terms and conditions to ensure that transport services meet the quality required in order to safely transport children, young people and vulnerable adults. Some of the new fines being put in place include:
• £150 fine for turning up in a smaller vehicle than contracted even if due to a breakdown • £500 fine for failing to wear a valid BCC ID badge These are on top of fines already put in place by the council. Steve Wright, Chairman of the Licensed Private Hire Car Association who has organised the protest expressed his concern: "The councils terms and conditions are not standard business practice. They're not fair on the businesses and they're not fair on the individuals that are being put under these conditions. They get the choice, you either sign or you lose the contract. In a way, its bordering on emotional blackmail of these businesses". The LPHCA had previously written to BCC to express their dismay at the conditions but had lacked meaningful engagement. A spokesperson for the BCC has said: "We have put in place quality standards which set out what we expect in areas such as quality vehicles, driver training, service timings and safeguarding and licensing requirements. These quality standards are in line with usual practice across the country". http://privatehirenews.co.uk/flash-mag/ ... gin=reader |
Author: | StuartW [ Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:25 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Bucks protest against £500 county council contract 'fine |
Bucks County Council wrote: We have put in place quality standards which set out what we expect in areas such as quality vehicles, driver training, service timings and safeguarding and licensing requirements. These quality standards are in line with usual practice across the country". 'Usual practice' across the country is fines like this? Find that hard to believe. Of course, perhaps in practice these fines would rarely be levied, but doubt if they'd withstand a legal challenge, somehow. By the way, is the LPHCA big outside London? Had always assumed it mainly represented PH ops in the capital, and the NPHA did that job in the provinces, but maybe not. |
Author: | Sussex [ Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:08 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Bucks protest against £500 county council contract 'fine |
Quote: 'Usual practice' across the country is fines like this? No way. These 'fines' are akin to the scam invoices parking firms charge. The council should be ashamed of themselves for letting two bob civil servants come up with such a scheme. |
Author: | grandad [ Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:17 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Bucks protest against £500 county council contract 'fine |
StuartW wrote:
• £150 fine for turning up in a smaller vehicle than contracted even if due to a breakdown • £500 fine for failing to wear a valid BCC ID badge These are on top of fines already put in place by the council. Do they actually use the word "fine"? I thought that only the police and the courts can issue fines. If you get done for parking by a council it is not called a "fine" it is a penalty charge. I would be challenging these "conditions" as being unfair and if they were deemed to be fair then I would not carry out any more work for them. |
Author: | roythebus [ Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:14 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Bucks protest against £500 county council contract 'fine |
Even "penalty charges" are unlawful in contract law. ISTR it goes back to a case of Dunlop-v-someone back in 1916. you can be sued for brach of contract, but as soon as the word "penalty" is involved, that makes it unlawful. The £100 "penalty" makes the job not worth doing. think about it, it would only take a few complaints from parents with a bit of a grudge to ake an operator potentially bankrupt in a short space of time. In the bus industry we already have the threat of financial action from the Traffic Commissioner for running more than 2 minutes early on timetabled bus services; TfL bus operators are constantly monitored by iBus for punctuality and get money withheld for early running, late running with no reasonable excuse, wrong sort of bus etc., so it's nothing new in the bus industry. But to "fine" for punctuality breaches needs to be looked at very carefully on both sides. Is it in their contracts? If not they can't introduce this unilaterally.Any change has to be agreed by both sides. It simply won't stand up in a court of law. Personally I'd tell the council what to do with their contract and not bother with them any more. but on the other hand some operators deserve what they get. |
Author: | StuartW [ Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Bucks protest against £500 county council contract 'fine |
The terminology used is 'default charge' (default of the contract, presumably). The word 'fine' in the article is that used by the LPHCA or the local press. For the reasons others have stated in the thread, I doubt the council will be using the word 'fine'. Don't know if everyone has been able to click on the link at the bottom of the first post here to view the full list of conditions and 'fines' (there must be almost 100 ), but while it was OK for me last night, I'm having trouble reading it today. If anyone can't read it then maybe a good idea to click on the PDF icon at the top of the page, and when it loads there's then a download icon which allows you to download the whole magazine to your hard drive. Couldn't see any other obvious way to save a copy to hard drive, but it's easier to read that way. Anyway, this is what the LPHCA has to say, if anyone hasn't been able to read it: LPHCA wrote: The LPHCA has written to BCC to express our dismay as in our opinion, many of these terms & conditions are wholly unreasonable, unfair and unworkable. We have now engaged our legal advisors Travis Morley because we believe some of the requirements as set out compromise safety.
As well as writing to BCC the LPHCA was asked by members to attend two meetings, the second of which other members of our team and our legal advisor Neil Morley were present. We have not [now?] formed a plan of action, part of which is to widen knowledge of the harsh default charges and we have a third scheduled meeting with operators, which by the time we go to press should have taken place. Our action highlights the LPHCA’s proactive commitment to regional and national matters and reinforces the need for urgency in tackling this type of issue. Should other PHV & taxi operators be subject to similar issues, please call the LPHCA on 01442 833464 or email office@lphca.co.uk and we’d be delighted to talk to you about membership. |
Author: | edders23 [ Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:20 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Bucks protest against £500 county council contract 'fine |
If it is default of the contract they cannot amend it mid contract it could only be added when renewal comes up surely |
Author: | StuartW [ Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Bucks protest against £500 county council contract 'fine |
edders23 wrote: If it is default of the contract they cannot amend it mid contract it could only be added when renewal comes up surely If you read the LPHCA's stuff via the link, it says something about "conditions the operators tendering were being expected to sign up to", so I suspect it's for new contracts rather than new terms inserted mid-contract. Anyway, for anyone not able to read the full list of conditions I've pasted the whole thing below. Wish I hadn't started now - easy enough to copy and paste it, but it comes out in a bit of a splurge, so takes a few minutes to get it into a presentable/readable format. Presentation/formatting could still be a bit better, but it took the thick end of ten minutes to get it as below, and that was long enough |
Author: | StuartW [ Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Bucks protest against £500 county council contract 'fine |
FAILURES, FOLLOWED BY DEFAULT CHARGES SERVICE DELIVERY £150 PER DAY Failure to operate Contract Route (Default Charge is in addition to losing the days fee). £100 PER DAY Failure to complete scheduled journey (Default Charge is in addition to losing the days fee). £100 PER INCIDENT Early pick up or arrival at School/Establishment – more than 15 minutes before scheduled time (including Aylesbury Coach Park). £100 PER INCIDENT Late running – more than 15 minutes. £100 PER DAY Operating incorrect route. £100 PER DAY Failure to observe designated stop / pick up points. £500 PER INCIDENT Failure to undertake appropriate hand-over to a responsible adult of vulnerable passengers at home or establishment i.e. not handing over to parent / carer at home address / not handing over to carer at school or establishment. £150 PER DAY Use of smaller vehicle than contracted. £150 PER DAY Use of vehicle which does not meet specification. £150 PER DAY Operation with defective vehicle. £150 PER DAY Failure to carry passenger assistants as required. £50 PER INCIDENT Default Charge for submitting an incorrect invoice. £500 PER DAY Use of drivers/passenger assistants not previously approved by the Council. (Default Charge applied even if contract is withdrawn). £500 PER DAY Sub-Contracting without prior agreement from the Council. £250 PER INCIDENT Failure to use required safety equipment correctly. £500 PER INCIDENT Driver or passenger assistant smoking including e-cigarettes during contract. £100 PER INCIDENT Other infringement of ‘Code of Conduct’. £150 PER DAY Failure to respond within 24 hours to complaint or report. £150 PER DAY Failure to check allocated bus passes / passenger numbers. £125 PER DAY Transporting Animals (except Guide Dogs). £150 PER DAY Failure to display a suitable, route detail or school service plate. £125 PER DAY Failure to notify the Council (in writing) for any reason a passenger does not travel. £250 PER DAY Failure to provide regular driver / PA where it is specified and no arrangement made in advance to introduce, advise parents /carer new staff (SEND Safeguarding). £250 PER INCIDENT Failure to carry out a suitable meet and greet for vulnerable adult passengers that has been requested by the Council. £50 PER DAY Default Charge for no communication e.g. communication on lateness or contract agreement. £50 PER DAY Failure to record delays on the disruption website. DRIVERS AND PASSENGER ASSISTANTS £500 PER DAY Failure to drive smoothly, safely and within the law. £500 PER INCIDENT Smoking (including e-cigarettes) during contracted times, including waiting periods at appropriate pick up points. £500 PER INCIDENT Being under the influence of alcohol or drugs whilst conveying passengers. £500 PER INCIDENT Failure to drop off / pick up passengers on the pavement or away from passing traffic. £500 PER INCIDENT Using a mobile telephone when in control of the vehicle. £50 PER INCIDENT Eating during contracted periods or whilst driving without medical exception. £250 PER INCIDENT Passenger Assistant not complying with responsibilities. e.g. not assisting passenger, sitting in the front of the vehicle, failing to carry out their duties in the best interest of the passenger. £500 PER INCIDENT Failure to hold a valid BCC ID badge, (including red badge on specialist contracts). £100 PER INCIDENT Failure to wear / display a valid BCC ID badge at all times whilst working on Council contracts. £250 PER INCIDENT Failure to carry a valid CPC card at all times whilst driving PCV vehicles on Council contracts. £125 PER INCIDENT Failure to carry a valid driving licence at all times whilst driving any vehicles on Council contracts. £125 PER INCIDENT Failure to wear / display a valid taxi badge at all times whilst working on Council contracts. HEALTH AND SAFETY £500 PER INCIDENT Parking, waiting, picking up or dropping off in contravention of any road markings or prohibition. £50 PER DAY Failure to wear appropriate High Visibility clothing. £250 PER DAY Failure to have a robust drink and drug policy and maintain accurate records. £150 PER DAY Failure to carry up to date route detail. £150 PER MISSING ITEM PER DAY All vehicles on Council contracts must carry a charged, in date Fire extinguisher and first aid box and drivers must know the accessible location of these. £50 PER INCIDENT Failure for specialised wheelchair vehicles to use hazard lights while stopped. £250 PER DAY Failure to ensure that all vehicles used to fulfil this contract shall be maintained in accordance with the Councils Exceptionally Well Maintained Criteria as defined in Annex A of the Specification. £250 PER DAY Failure to keep accurate Risk Assessment Records. £250 PER DAY Using vehicles not identified on the approved list (fine for each vehicle identified). £250 PER INCIDENT Failure to ensure up to date and accurate DBS checks on all staff (fine for each member of staff identified, at the Councils discretion). £250 PER INCIDENT Failure to attend identified training and meetings (Penalty per person failed to attend at the Councils discretion). LICENSING AND INSURANCE £500 PER DAY Failure to secure appropriate insurance and MOT. £250 PER DAY Failure to maintain accurate records of insurance, Driver Licensing Checks, MOT and servicing including sub-contractors. £500 PER DAY Failure to hold a valid and appropriate vocational driving licence. £250 PER DAY Failure to adhere to licensing conditions. £250 PER DAY Failure to maintain accurate records of driving and vocational license checks. £250 PER DAY Failure to display valid Private Hire Vehicles (PHVs) and Hackney Carriage Vehicle (HCVs) vehicle licence plates. £500 PER DAY Failure to hold the relevant motor, employee, public and passenger liability insurance £10 million. VEHICLE SUITABILITY & AVAILABILITY £500 PER DAY Failure to ensure the vehicle is roadworthy. £500 PER DAY Failure to ensure vehicles used on Council contracts meet the requirements of relevant Acts of Parliament, Statutory Instruments, Orders or regulations that are in force. £500 PER DAY Failure to ensure the vehicle is at all times maintained and comply with any licence conditions or legislative requirements. £250 PER DAY Failure to ensure an appropriately approved vehicle is used as when a replacement vehicle is required (list of approved vehicles submitted to Council). £250 PER DAY Failure to have the correct legal lettering, livery or route / destination clearly displayed on the vehicle. £50 PER INCIDENT Failure to provide appropriate high backed booster seat (as described in Document 4 – 11.11). £500 PER DAY Failure to provide seatbelts fitted to every passenger seat on all vehicles used to transport Primary School aged children. Please note this list is not comprehensive and the Council reserves the right to identify other defaults in performance and assign appropriate Penalty Points and Default Charges which shall be incorporated into the Contract. |
Author: | Sussex [ Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:26 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Bucks protest against £500 county council contract 'fine |
Madness. People would have to be desperate to sign up to those conditions, but sadly in our trade we have desperate people. Maybe the sensible ones will add a premium to their tenders, but that may lead the idiots to get the work. I would complain to the Ombudsman about those conditions, as they are an abuse that could in the end render those contracts unenforceable. |
Author: | grandad [ Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:53 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Bucks protest against £500 county council contract 'fine |
To me, the only protest the operators and drivers need to make is to give notice on ALL the contracts stating that they are not prepared to accept the unfair charges and let the Council sort out alternative arrangements, if they can. It wouldn't take long to get the publicity need. |
Author: | edders23 [ Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:42 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Bucks protest against £500 county council contract 'fine |
as grandad says if they threaten en mass not to renew under those terms maybe the council will rethink but if all they do is moan they'll get nowhere |
Author: | jimbo [ Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:11 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Bucks protest against £500 county council contract 'fine |
So the jobsworths would “fine” a driver or p/a if they were under the influence of drugs or alcohol. How would they know I’d just had my daily fix of meth amphetamine, and how would they prove it? |
Author: | jimbo [ Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Bucks protest against £500 county council contract 'fine |
jimbo wrote: So the jobsworths would “fine” a driver or p/a if they were under the influence of drugs or alcohol. How would they know I’d just had my daily fix of meth amphetamine, and how would they prove it? Been on it for years, btw, and I haven’t found it the least bit addictive. |
Author: | edders23 [ Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:29 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Bucks protest against £500 county council contract 'fine |
jimbo wrote: jimbo wrote: So the jobsworths would “fine” a driver or p/a if they were under the influence of drugs or alcohol. How would they know I’d just had my daily fix of meth amphetamine, and how would they prove it? Been on it for years, btw, and I haven’t found it the least bit addictive. you are sounding more like a politician every day 1st rule of politics never tell the truth when a lie will do |
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