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UK cab trade debate and advice
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 8:19 am 
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Well he really does need to help for another few months especially if the finance company want some money from me.


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 4:10 pm 
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rayggb wrote:
Well he really does need to help for another few months especially if the finance company want some money from me.

As they are extending the mortgage delay scheme, I can't see why the car finance scheme shouldn't be delayed as well.

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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 10:14 pm 
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grandad wrote:
bloodnock wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Couple of the oldies down here have had their applications for the grant refused as they are taking their pension.

Bearing in mind they are still paying tax via the self assessment process, it does seem a bit mean.


All they ask is if your intending to continue trading in the 20-21 tax year.....i saw no mention of drawing on a Pension.

A pension is classed as income so if the value of the pension is greater than the declared profit from self employment then you don't qualify.


How many in the Trade have received an annual pension that was bigger than their annual declared profit?...they must either have large pension or a very small profit, and if that were the case then why bother working for peanuts when you could be enjoying retirement, and if the pensions higher than your profits then maybe you really don't need the Self employment support in the first case.


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 10:27 pm 
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Hamish mcsporran wrote:
I am not convinced the taxi trade Is the sector That Sunak is worried About still coining it in, I think its more the Big number of Construction workers who are all going back to something like normal operations As of next month who maybe won’t need On going support, it’s going to have to be targeted In some way


The Taxi and PH trade tend to be above board when declaring annual income as their vehicle Mileometers can make it easy for the Taxman to base their projected incomes on, It's a few of the less scrupulous domestic tradesmen who work with their hands that may declare massively less annual profits through cash in hand jobs where mileage does not reflect what they got paid....they may get less of a Grant but that's offset by the money hidden under the bed to a point where they need a step ladder to get to sleep.

There are soler trader tradesmen living in mansions these days where as thirty years ago many of them would have worked as employees and lived in much more modest homes or in a council house.


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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 3:03 am 
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Blood wrote:
How many in the Trade have received an annual pension that was bigger than their annual declared profit?...they must either have large pension or a very small profit, and if that were the case then why bother working for peanuts when you could be enjoying retirement, and if the pensions higher than your profits then maybe you really don't need the Self employment support in the first case.

Indeed, but even if they do have a reasonable pension, some drivers just do it for an extra bit of cash, as indeed lots of younger drivers do, particularly those with full-time PAYE jobs elsewhere.

Some semi-retired types just seem to do it to give themselves some sense of purpose as well - I often think that a driver's attitude to the job depends on whether they actually need to do it. If it's their only income, they tend to dislike it more than those for whom it's more just a bit of extra cash, or to get them 'out of the house'.

One older driver I knew did three nights, maybe ten hours a night into the early hours, including Friday and Saturday, so the most lucrative hours.

He'd a house with no mortgage, and think he'd a pension of some sort. But he basically used his taxi income to take two or three expensive foreign holidays each year, so could do that and leave his pension intact for the more usual stuff.

Not sure if his pension would have been more than his taxi income, and therefore if he could have claimed the grant.

But he sold out just before Christmas anyway, and I'm guessing got £5k or so for the plate, which I'd guess is worthless at the moment :roll:

Blood wrote:
The Taxi and PH trade tend to be above board when declaring annual income as their vehicle Mileometers can make it easy for the Taxman to base their projected incomes on, It's a few of the less scrupulous domestic tradesmen who work with their hands that may declare massively less annual profits through cash in hand jobs where mileage does not reflect what they got paid....they may get less of a Grant but that's offset by the money hidden under the bed to a point where they need a step ladder to get to sleep.

There are soler trader tradesmen living in mansions these days where as thirty years ago many of them would have worked as employees and lived in much more modest homes or in a council house.

Some tradesman doing very well, but I doubt they're living in mansions because of the tax they've not paid, although no doubt it has helped some of them buy a bigger/better house than they could have afforded otherwise.

And not sure precisely what you mean by 'sole trader', but you could be employing thousands of people and making profits of £millions per yer, yet still set up as a sole trader (which, to put it crudely, simply means that in legal terms your business isn't a partnership or limited company).

And you may be right about some people in the taxi trade, or some particular locations, but in both the areas I've worked there have been a large number of drivers completely unknown to the taxman, mainly because they're retired or have PAYE jobs elsewhere. Quite a few benefit fraudsters over the years as well, some of whom have been caught out [-X

And generally speaking those types tend to drive someone else's car, so more difficult for the taxman to keep tabs on them.

Of course, there are numerous different scenarios, so I'm just generalising. For example, my semi-retired pal had his own car and declared his earnings.

But before I had my own car, there were plenty of people looking to take on drivers, but I'd actually say it was quite difficult to find someone to take you on if you wanted to go 'through the books' :-o :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 1:05 am 
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This is both encouraging and discouraging at the same time :?


Sunak mulls an end to self-employment and furlough schemes

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... h-schemes/

Decision on self-employed support expected as business groups urge Chancellor to back extension

The fortunes of millions of workers are hanging in the balance as Rishi Sunak weighs up whether to axe a crucial self-employment support programme and separately prepares to block new furlough applications.

A decision on whether to extend the self-employment income support scheme (SEISS) beyond May is expected to be made within days - and a sudden stop to the grant is still on the table, according to sources close to the discussions.

Meanwhile the Treasury is reportedly preparing to stop accepting new applications for the furlough programme, a different subsidy aimed at helping employees.

The self-employment scheme, which pays 2m people up to £2,500 a month, has been hailed as a lifeline for desperate entrepreneurs whose incomes vanished overnight due to the lockdown. But it is due to end in five days' time, pitching workers into the universal credit system and putting many of their homes and livelihoods at risk.

The Chancellor was mulling options over the bank holiday weekend and is yet to decide on whether to extend or ditch the SEISS payments.

Three-quarters of self-employed people receiving a grant are completely reliant on the scheme, meaning 1.5 million workers could be left without any income at all if support is withdrawn, according to workers' support group Organise.

Sources said some form of extension is more likely than not, particularly after a lower than expected uptake of the scheme.

The Treasury has “more headroom and more money to play with” after expecting more to sign up from the 3.5 million invited to apply, a source said.

Business groups last night urged Mr Sunak to back an extension, warning a sudden stop would deliver a huge blow to self-employed workers' incomes.

Craig Beaumont, of the Federation of Small Businesses, called for a full extension until August to match the taxpayer-funded employee furlough scheme. Any additional support beyond then could be tapered off as workers get back on their feet.

Andy Chamberlain, director of policy at self-employed trade body Ipse, said extending the furlough scheme for employees while pulling the rug from under self-employed workers would be "a glaring injustice".

He said: “The Government will need the self-employed to kickstart the economy after coronavirus yet most of them cannot continue their work in the midst of this deadly pandemic and are relying on Government support to keep their businesses afloat."

The Job Retention Scheme - which pays up to £2,500 a month to furloughed employees during the pandemic - has already been extended until October. Businesses will have to make a contribution to their pay from August.

Employees relying on the subsidy will shortly be able to come back on a part-time basis, with more details expected to be announced this week. The Financial Times reported that the Chancellor will shortly announce a ban on new entrants to the furlough scheme, which supports 8m people and could cost up to £80bn.

Almost 90,000 people have signed a petition by Organise to extend the self-employment income support scheme.

Payments to self-employed workers are backdated to cover income lost during March, April and May.

If it is extended, the Chancellor could also unveil how the scheme will be eventually wound down. Tapering could involve a cut to the scheme’s £50,000 trading profits threshold or a reduction in the proportion of the income support provided.

A Treasury spokesman said: “The Chancellor indicated the SEISS would be a temporary one when he announced it at the end of March, but it could be extended if necessary. The Government is keeping this under review.”


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 1:10 am 
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Quote:
Sources said some form of extension is more likely than not, particularly after a lower than expected uptake of the scheme.

The Treasury has “more headroom and more money to play with” after expecting more to sign up from the 3.5 million invited to apply, a source said.

That's interesting - approximately one out of three eligible people haven't applied :shock:

Wonder why that is? Doubt if many people would look a gift horse in the mouth, so to speak, and even if reasonably well off, if government offering them up to £7.5k on a plate, are they *not* going to apply for it? :-k

Of course, many of those HMRC contacted as egligible maybe just carried on working as normal, so strictly speaking wouldn't be eligible for the grant. But couldn't see that being as many as one in three, even if they're all being totally honest :-o

Quote:
If it is extended, the Chancellor could also unveil how the scheme will be eventually wound down. Tapering could involve a cut to the scheme’s £50,000 trading profits threshold or a reduction in the proportion of the income support provided.

So the most obvious options are (as mentioned previously):

1) Reduce the percentage of profits claimable from 80%
2) Reduce the grant limit from £2,500/month

So a third obvious option, which we haven't discussed before, is:

3) Reduce annual profits limit from £50,000

As someone below half the profits limit (3) and the monthly grant limit (2), I couldn't see changes to either of those affecting me [-(

So I'm hoping it's either 2) or 3) =D>

Not sure how it would affect the trade more generally if annual profits limit reduced to £30k, say. If your profits are above that, you'd go from a couple of grand a month to a zero grant :roll:

Suspect most grassroots drivers would be below that, but maybe not a sole trader with a couple of cars, and a handful of drivers, never mind bigger operations.

But whatever happens, I'm hoping it's just another simple form-filling exercise rather than something more like the bounce back loan shambles [-o<

(And my suggested figures are just speculation, so no one should panic until we actually see what happens O:))


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:47 pm 
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I think the scheme will be extended, having read the article.

But maybe reduced to 60%.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 11:04 pm 
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Text of article below perhaps slightly more encouraging than the headline.

The 'in doubt' in the headline seems to relate more to the length of the scheme, rather than whether it'll actually be extended at all. So seems more about that it won't be extended to October, therefore unlike the furlough scheme.

But that wouldn't bother me, particularly, because I wasn't expecting the self-employment scheme to run until October.

Another three months would be great, so covering June, July and August =D>

Even if lockdown ended here tomorrow, doubt much point me going out to sit on the ranks for several weeks yet, and suspect I'll just earn a pittance until the students come back in September. Even then I think we'll be well down, given our dependence on the tourists here as well, who I doubt will be much in evidence till next year :sad:

But the pubs and restaurants reopening here will be the minimum required for me, I'm guessing, so don't know when that'll happen :?

But, realistically, another three months of the grant is probably as much as we can expect, and I just hope it's on the same terms as the money we've just received [-o<

Of course, there may end up being no more money at all, but I'm pretty confident there will be some kind of extension :-|

Anyway, looks like we won't be told what's happening until next week now at the earliest.


Aid for UK self-employed in doubt despite pledge of ‘parity’ with furloughing

https://www.ft.com/content/3abbe814-6e1 ... 55cc5f80d0

Fears scheme which has paid out £6.8bn will not be extended alongside support to companies for their employees

Chancellor Rishi Sunak plans to wind down a £6.8bn assistance scheme for the self-employed ahead of the scheduled October end date for his furlough programme for employees, in spite of a government pledge that the two groups would enjoy “parity” of support in the coronavirus crisis.

HM Revenue & Customs said on Wednesday it had received 2.3m claims under the self-employed income support scheme, at a cost of £6.8bn, but the Treasury is concerned that because of the need to help large numbers of people quickly, the programme is poorly targeted.

Mr Sunak also maintains the programme is different in nature to the furlough scheme.

The chancellor will announce in the coming days details of exactly how he intends to end the furlough scheme for employees in October. HMRC said 1m employers were now using the scheme, which has paid 80 per cent of the wages of more than 8m staff, at a cost of £15bn so far.

Mr Sunak will not make a statement about the future of the self-employed scheme until next month, and government officials downplayed expectations that it would also be extended until October.

“I would not expect it to match the furlough extension,” said one. Business groups who have urged the government to extend the aid for the self-employed are waiting to find out how and when it will end.

While the level of support offered under the scheme is broadly equivalent to that paid to furloughed employees — 80 per cent of previous earnings, capped at £2,500 a month — its coverage is partial.

The government said this month it would extend the furlough scheme from June until October, albeit with employers starting to pick up some of the tab from August.

But the government has said nothing about whether the self-employed can expect any further support after the one-off grant they have received, notionally to cover the period from March to May.

“A big proportion of our 5m strong self-employed community now faces a total income cliff edge in a matter of days,” said Mike Cherry, national chair of the Federation for Small Businesses. “Many of them — hairdressers, personal trainers, event organisers, caterers and B&B owners — work in sectors that will be impacted for many more weeks to come.”

Part of the dilemma facing the Treasury is that the self-employed scheme — while a lifeline for some — is not well focused.

Some of those who qualify for the grant may have suffered a relatively small reduction in income as a result of the lockdown, while others who were initially hard hit — such as construction workers — may now be returning to work.

Self-employed people are allowed to work in spite of receiving the grant, a point stressed by Mr Sunak in a Twitter exchange on May 22.

“The two schemes are different,” he said, comparing the furlough scheme with the self-employed programme. He said the former was intended to keep employees attached to their company, while the latter could not be “targeted in the same way”.

Boris Johnson said in March that the employed and self-employed would receive “parity” of treatment, but government officials said that related to the monthly cap of £2,500, not the length of any support.

Many self-employed — including owner-managers paying themselves through dividends, and high earners — may not qualify for state support.

But a survey conducted by the London School of Economics’ Centre for Economic Performance showed self-employed people had been hit especially hard by the crisis.

Three-quarters said they had less work than usual, while a third stated their health had been at risk while working.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 11:06 pm 
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Quote:
Part of the dilemma facing the Treasury is that the self-employed scheme — while a lifeline for some — is not well focused.

Some of those who qualify for the grant may have suffered a relatively small reduction in income as a result of the lockdown, while others who were initially hard hit — such as construction workers — may now be returning to work.

Self-employed people are allowed to work in spite of receiving the grant, a point stressed by Mr Sunak in a Twitter exchange on May 22.

That's the nub of the problem - how exactly do you separate those barely affected, and those wiped out for last three months, and probably for much of the next three months as well? :-k


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 5:43 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
Quote:
Part of the dilemma facing the Treasury is that the self-employed scheme — while a lifeline for some — is not well focused.

Some of those who qualify for the grant may have suffered a relatively small reduction in income as a result of the lockdown, while others who were initially hard hit — such as construction workers — may now be returning to work.

Self-employed people are allowed to work in spite of receiving the grant, a point stressed by Mr Sunak in a Twitter exchange on May 22.

That's the nub of the problem - how exactly do you separate those barely affected, and those wiped out for last three months, and probably for much of the next three months as well? :-k


And many of those on the Employers furlough scheme will knowingly after October have no Job to go back to as many less Scrupulous employers and Employees are simply using the scheme to defer almost certain unemployment in the current depressed state of the economy.

All the more reason I'd have thought for the Government to come to the longer term aid of the 5 million self employed who are going to be very much needed to kickstart the UK economy, take up the slack and who might become the next generation of employers to replace those who are presently and rapidly going to the wall......and when they are at it they could reduce the red tape and bureaucracy that deters many of us from employing staff in an effort to drive our business's forwards.


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 6:08 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Couple of the oldies down here have had their applications for the grant refused as they are taking their pension.

Bearing in mind they are still paying tax via the self assessment process, it does seem a bit mean.

Spoke to both of them today and they said they are now getting the grant.

Good on them.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 6:12 pm 
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At today's Covid-19 press conference I'm pretty certain Boris implied an announcement on the extension of the self-employed scheme would be made soon.

He was mentioning that the gov will support those that do the right thing, and all the support that's available, and then mentioned the self-employed and said more info on that would follow.

Looks promising IMO.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 9:57 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
At today's Covid-19 press conference I'm pretty certain Boris implied an announcement on the extension of the self-employed scheme would be made soon.

He was mentioning that the gov will support those that do the right thing, and all the support that's available, and then mentioned the self-employed and said more info on that would follow.

Looks promising IMO.



I truly hope your right [-o<


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 11:13 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Couple of the oldies down here have had their applications for the grant refused as they are taking their pension.

Bearing in mind they are still paying tax via the self assessment process, it does seem a bit mean.

Spoke to both of them today and they said they are now getting the grant.

Good on them.

Interesting - any idea why they were refused initially, but have now been accepted?

I mean, the rules on that seem pretty hard and fast, and would depend on the numbers submitted and agreed on previous tax returns. So would be interesting to know what happened, precisely :-k


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