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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:35 am 
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Haven't read about many planning applications for a while. Maybe something to do with you-know-what.

But this one seems a bit odd :?


Burnley town centre taxi firm expansion approved

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... -approved/

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Image: Lancashire Telegraph

A PRIVATE hire vehicle firm has been given the go ahead to expand with new parking spaces.

Burnley Council's Development Control Committee has approved 24 slots for the business based at 143 St James’s Street, Burnley.

The premises have been used as a taxi booking office since the 1980’s with numerous firms operating from there.

Councillors were told: "Most recently City and Ronnie's Private Hire have taken over ownership of the premises and expanded the business.

"The application has been brought to committee as an objection has been received on parking grounds."

Kathy Bibby, for the applicant, told councillors that the extra spaces would not cause traffic or parking problems as automation and new communications technology meant that vehicles could pick up fares without the need to return to the office.

She said the firm has originally sought to increase the total number of vehicles operating from the office to 75 but after discussion with planning officers regarding highway concerned had reduced it to 60 meaning the 24 spaces proposed, all within 100 metres of the office, were adequate for the firm and safe.

The application was approved.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:35 am 
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Quote:
She said the firm has originally sought to increase the total number of vehicles operating from the office to 75 but after discussion with planning officers regarding highway concerned had reduced it to 60 meaning the 24 spaces proposed, all within 100 metres of the office, were adequate for the firm and safe.

Would be interesting to know precisely what these parking spaces are. Is it public parking provision, or some kind of private car park?

24 spaces within 100 metres of the office seems a lot in a central location like this :shock:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:37 pm 
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What a load of old fanny.

The firm(s) could have a 1000 cars but as they will never go to the office why does the firm need to be restricted to 60.

It is still 2020 isn't it, not 18 f***ing 20. ](*,)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:29 am 
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Sussex wrote:
The firm(s) could have a 1000 cars but as they will never go to the office why does the firm need to be restricted to 60.

Indeed, but the maximum numbers permitted seem to be linked to those mysterious 24 parking spaces.

Suspect it might make a bit more sense in the official agenda and reports, but can't be bothered looking...


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:09 pm 
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Well couldn't sleep last night, so did a bit of digging while I was still half awake 8-[

So here's the Lancashire Telegraph's Google photo again:

Image

But it seems they've went too far up to include the actual office (alternatively, the image above is facing in the wrong direction) :lol:

So this seems to be the office here:

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And funny thing is, they've got another office a few doors up as a kind of airport transfer branch :-s

(Could be different firms both using the name Prince - you never know with minicab office names - although looks like both offices using the same phone number [-( )

(The first office is towards the right, just behind that annoying Google symbol)

Image

And slightly further up, but on other side, is an office called City/Ronnies.

Image

The Prince office (Airport Division) is just behind the hanging basket on the left hand pavement.

That disused white office next to Ronnies was also a cab office, and noticed it on one of the Google views when it had been shut and looked pretty shabby, so at least it's been tidied up a bit.

But here's the twist. It seems that Ronnies have taken over the Prince office, and it's them that's made the planning application :-o


Anyway, as the photos underline, where are these 24 mysterious parking spaces? The street seems to be either loading or disabled bays, or double yellows.

But, as I kind of thought, it seems that the local council and the county council have some kind of formula that links the number of cars operating to the number of parking spaces that they deem is required (adjusted, of course, for the percentage of the office's cars they consider to be working at any one time =D> #-o ).

And the parking spaces are required to be within 100 metres of the office. Yes, as if the drivers will park 100m away when they can park on double yellows outside the office =D>

Anyway, for a change the official agenda papers were easy enough to find, and this is the link, but the main points have been extracted below. Still not clear precisely what the status of the parking spaces is, but I'm assuming they're in council-controlled car parks.

But if parking is in such short supply, allocating 24 spaces to a PH firm seems excessive, because it seems unlikely they'd be using very many of them at once, and more likely to park where they shouldn't, and members of the public using the allocated spaces instead.

So reminds me of our rank in St Andrews - looks all very neat and tidy on paper, but an utter shambles in practice [-X

https://burnley.moderngov.co.uk/documen ... ee.pdf?T=9

Burnley CC wrote:
Objections received by adjoining neighbour

Parking is a massive issue and very problematic at this current time

Taxis always congregating around 143 St James Street but always transgressing and causing issues around neighbouring properties, especially to our property at 141 St James St

Extra traffic flow issues

Illegal parking on double yellow Lines

Blocking my direct property at the back


Lancashire CC Highways Burnley

With respect to the proposed application we would not wish to raise an objection to the application. However, there is a concern regarding the parking provision for this application.

Following further correspondence from the agent the applicant is suggesting that a reduction to an operation of 65 private hire vehicles could be forthcoming.

The planning statement makes reference to a similar application elsewhere within Burnley Town Centre and references the 18 car parking spaces allocated on the Thompson Centre car park as detailed in the decision notice. This was the figure that Burnley Borough Council proposed, a higher figure of 22 was suggested by Lancashire County Council.

Using the same vehicle utilisation figure from similar applications, it is suggested that 55% of the licenced vehicles would be in use at one time which equates to 35.75 or 36 private hire vehicles. If Lancashire County Councils Parking Standards were applied at 1 parking space per 1.5 car, 36 (55% of 65) vehicles operating from business this would require 24 car parking spaces. Following from the other application which is being used as a precedent for this site a mid-point of 30 spaces could be requested. Both Burnley and Lancashire's Parking Standards state that the allocated parking spaces should to be located within 100m of the office. It is expected that not all the spaces will be available within 100m of the office reasonable alternative locations could be considered

In order to support this application we would look for further plans showing where 26 car parking spaces are to be located. Which is still a reduction on the mid-point proposed in line with the other application, however it is in line with the 40% of the total spaces as stated in my earlier response to this application.

Should you wish to support the application we would look for the following condition to be added to the decision notice.

1. No private hire vehicle operating from the booking office hereby approved shall be parked on the highway within 100 metres of the office. Reason: In the interests of highway safety having regard to Policy IC6 of Burnley's Local Plan 2018.


Assessment:

Planning and Environmental Considerations:

The main issues are the effect of the proposed development on the vitality and viability of the Burnley Town Centre; highway safety and sustainable economic growth.

Location

1) Proposals for taxi booking offices will only be permitted in the following areas as defined on the Policies Map:

a) Within Burnley Town Centre outside of the Primary Shopping Frontages
b) Within Padiham Town Centre; or
c) Within a defined District Centre.


The property is outside the primary shopping frontages within the town centre area where Policy TC3 applies. It sets out that the development should not result in more than 20% of the length of the ground floor frontage being in non-retail use and not be unduly prominent by location or relationship to the other uses.

In principle the continued use as a private hire office use is acceptable.

2) if no appropriate sites can be found within these locations, other sites can be considered. Where this is the case the applicant will be required to demonstrate through a supporting statement why the site being proposed is suitable and how the development accords with other policies in the plan and criteria 3) to 7) below

The taxi booking office is an existing use in an appropriate location within the Town Centre.

Clustering

3) The proposal should not create an unacceptable concentration of similar uses.


The taxi booking office does not lead to an unacceptable concentration in the number of private hire uses in the immediate area.

Parking

4) On-site parking should be provided. Where this cannot be achieved, spaces should be located no more than 100 metres from the booking office.


The policy requirements set out a maximum distance of 100 metres to ensure that the spaces are practical and likely to be properly used to avoid vehicles parking near the booking office or gathering on the highway

The parking arrangements in the private car park are ideal and split in various locations with existing permission (see site plan). These spaces comply with the policy and no issues have been raised since the firm has been in operation, therefore the distance of available spaces is,on balance, considered to be acceptable.

5) One parking space should be provided for each taxi licensed.

Where less than one space for each taxi licensed is proposed, the applicant must demonstrate how the number of parking spaces would meet operational needs.

The applicant has amended the proposal to allow the operation of 60 vehicles with a parking provision of 24 vehicles located in the existing parking areas.

Due to advancements in technology, private hire firms are understood to be transitioning to automated systems which allocate incoming jobs to drivers depending on their location, availability, and type of vehicle. This will reduce the need for customers in the town centre to physically be at the booking office and avoid traffic congestion.

In determining the application, officers satisfied that information has provided to demonstrate the number of spaces provided will be sufficient to meet the operational needs of the business, without any detrimental impact to the highway network.

6) Applications for new booking offices or alterations to extend existing premises will be required to submit a clear parking layout indicating the precise number of spaces. These parking spaces should be dedicated and be available 24 hours a day.

The existing parking is located at the following locations and clear parking layout is indicated:

Two parking spaces –directly to the rear of booking office
Four parking spaces –on Calder Street
Three parking spaces –on Calder Street
Fifteen parking space –at Calder Vale House Car Park

All identified parking spaces are existing spaces that form part of the existing permissions.

Amenity

7) Developments should not have a detrimental impact on the character and amenity of surrounding uses, particularly residential uses, by reason of increased traffic movement, noise, vehicle fumes or other nuisance.

The application site is located within the defined town centre boundary with no known residential uses close by. The application is not considered to give rise to any increased traffic movement, noise, vehicle fumes or other nuisance and is considered to be compliant with criterion 7.

Conclusion

In determining the application, it is accepted that during a shift period a number of taxi’s in operation are likely to be dispersed throughout the borough and therefore do not require a parking space. As such, officers consider a parking provision of 40% to be adequate to meet the operational needs of the business without giving rise to any additional impacts on the highway network.

On balance, and subject to the recommended conditions, the application is considered to accord with the Council’s adopted Local Plan and the NPPF.

Recommendation:

That planning permission be granted subject to the relevant conditions.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:10 pm 
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Burnley Council wrote:
Due to advancements in technology, private hire firms are understood to be transitioning to automated systems which allocate incoming jobs to drivers depending on their location, availability, and type of vehicle. This will reduce the need for customers in the town centre to physically be at the booking office and avoid traffic congestion.

Are they talking about apps? But automated systems were doing that long before apps. And even two-way radios arguably performed some of the above.

They make it sound like until recently every job was a walk-up office hire :-s

So although their argument is plausible on one level, they seem to have zero appreciation of it all from a historical perspective, and how cars work in practice, so how they manage to quantify precise figures for cars working and required parking spaces is beyond me.

It's like our council are fixated with this figure of ten official spaces required for our rank, but where I've seen nearly 40 queued :-o

Burnley Council wrote:
In determining the application, it is accepted that during a shift period a number of taxi’s in operation are likely to be dispersed throughout the borough and therefore do not require a parking space. As such, officers consider a parking provision of 40% to be adequate to meet the operational needs of the business without giving rise to any additional impacts on the highway network.

No $hit Sherlock =D>

(Ever started something and wish you hadn't? :roll: )


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:57 pm 
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Has the zombie apocalypse reached that road?

Looking at how busy it is you have to wonder why a cab firm would want to be located there. :-k

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:57 am 
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Sussex wrote:
Has the zombie apocalypse reached that road?

Looking at how busy it is you have to wonder why a cab firm would want to be located there. :-k

Probably because it's cheap :-|

But I'm guessing the Streetview images taken very early in the morning (or maybe later on a Sunday morning) hence the lack of people and traffic. Maybe 6-7am. And latest images datestamped July, so that would be consistent with the daylight.

So quite a few closed/derelict shops and offices, but suspect most are just shuttered for the overnight period.

But certainly a few shabby looking shops, like this model shop to the left, just up from Ronnie's/City Cars. And this older view shows the office beside Ronnie's was called MM Taxis/Private Hire before it was tidied up, and the arrow is pointing to Ronnie's next door, so maybe some sort of amalgamation/merger.

Image


So more or less directly opposite is the Prince Airport Express office. Which I thought was a separate office from their main one just four doors up, but again this older image shows a sign saying that they've moved offices, with an arrow pointing up the road:

Image


And came across this on an estate agent's website, showing the main Prince office 'Open as usual during alterations' (the estate agent was advertising the property office next door):

Image


And now Ronnie's/City/Redrose/MM, or whatever they happen to be called, have moved into the Prince office :-o

Musical Minicabs, I call it.

Utterly fascinating stuff, though 8-[ :roll: :-s


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:25 am 
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Quote:
And now Ronnie's/City/Redrose/MM, or whatever they happen to be called, have moved into the Prince office


to save money ?

There does appear to be an industrial unit one street behind with lots of cars parked in it maybe that is also to do with them and accounts for the spaces ?

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