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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:26 pm 
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It's about time the likes of Uber were brought or dragged screaming into the 21st century.

I used to run a small bus company in London in the 1990s and even the had problems with who were and weren't "employees". Drivers hd to be rostered, and while we had a number of them on a roster with a guaranteed week (remember those?) some were classed as part time or casual drivers who worked when they wanted to and there was work available for them. But they had to work to the rostered duty as buses run (ahem) to a fixed timetable. but it wasn't much of a problem.

I then went on to running a small private hire business in Kent and considered using others to drive. But I foresaw the problems that Uber have and couldn't get my head round how to employ drivers and have to pay them to sit around waiting for business in what is a quite rural area with the nearest big towns 17 miles in all directions.

As others have said, hopefully this judgement will see and end to the massive over-provision of ph cars and maybe the driver won't be working ll day and night thinking they're making money when in fact they are working for next to nothing.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:51 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
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An honest days pay and conditions is not to much to ask for an honest days work regardless of what their scammy Gig Masters might think...it's time such rogues were brought into line both for their workers and for the fairness of competition for all Taxi and PH business's...and for all other types of business's as well for that matter.

I'm inclinded to agree. But I'll leave it to you to go and tell the HC and PH barons and gigmasters in Glasgow :wink:


=D>

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:54 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
In the US, California voters passed a measure called Proposition 22 that will see freelance workers continue to be classified as independent contractors in November, overturning a landmark labour law passed in 2019.


The public voted for cheaper fares rather than better driver conditions and rights :sad:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:55 pm 
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trotskys twin wrote:
Rest Assured the Tory Government are already considering changes to legislation that will enable Uber to carry on as normal.....................no doubt supported by that c88t Starmer :evil:


I was thinking that :sad:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:05 pm 
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richardjay wrote:
Other firms may try to argue they have different rules and that the decision was made on the basis of the Londonlegislation
But the fundamental finding was that the EmploymentbRibunal was correct

The Justices made a big thing about saying operators rules mean diddly squat. What matters is the legislation not what operators put in contracts that drivers except without checking.

Laws such as the National Minimum Wage Act were manifestly enacted to protect those whom Parliament considers to be in need of protection and not just those who are designated by their employer as qualifying for it.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:07 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Sussex wrote:
In the US, California voters passed a measure called Proposition 22 that will see freelance workers continue to be classified as independent contractors in November, overturning a landmark labour law passed in 2019.


The public voted for cheaper fares rather than better driver conditions and rights :sad:

Thankfully we don't have such a rule as Prop 22 in this country, and the only people who can change the Supreme Court's view is the UK government, and that's not going to happen.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:29 pm 
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A Glasgow licensing councillor's take on the Uber judgement.

Same councillor who a couple of years ago was banging the drum to cap PH plates. Which subsequently happened.

Glasgow licensing councillor wrote:
Absolutely brilliant stuff.

Unanimous agreement from the UK Supreme Court that Uber drivers are employees - of course they are!

The gig economy is predicated on precarious contracts + exploitation.

This is a good start to addressing that - we need a new deal for workers.

Is it just me? :-s


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:35 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
A Glasgow licensing councillor's take on the Uber judgement.

Same councillor who a couple of years ago was banging the drum to cap PH plates. Which subsequently happened.

Glasgow licensing councillor wrote:
Absolutely brilliant stuff.

Unanimous agreement from the UK Supreme Court that Uber drivers are employees - of course they are!

The gig economy is predicated on precarious contracts + exploitation.

This is a good start to addressing that - we need a new deal for workers.

Is it just me? :-s


I wonder what his views are on the differences are between a driver who chooses to work on the uber system and a driver who works for a regular PH firm are?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:35 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Think the one issue that’s going to cause the most financial pain to Uber and the likes of Addison Lee and Delta is the minimum wage part of the ruling.

Court said if you are logged on in your licensing area then you are entitled to minimum wage whether you have a punter or not.

Sussex, does it actually state that in the judgement ?....That If driver is logged on in his licensing area with or without a punter he qualifies for the minimum wage.
What if the driver is working across borders like most of them do ?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:37 pm 
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cheshirebest wrote:
Sussex, does it actually state that in the judgement ?....That If driver is logged on in his licensing area with or without a punter he qualifies for the minimum wage.
What if the driver is working across borders like most of them do ?


Good question that man :D

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:38 pm 
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Sussex, does it actually state that in the judgement ?....That If driver is logged on in his licensing area with or without a punter he qualifies for the minimum wage.

Taken from the summary.

When are the drivers “working” for Uber?

The Supreme Court also holds that the employment tribunal was entitled to find that time spent by the claimants working for Uber was not limited (as Uber argued) to periods when they were actually driving passengers to their destinations, but included any period when the driver was logged into the Uber app within the territory in which the driver was licensed to operate and was ready and willing to accept trips

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:40 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
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Sussex, does it actually state that in the judgement ?....That If driver is logged on in his licensing area with or without a punter he qualifies for the minimum wage.

Taken from the summary.

When are the drivers “working” for Uber?

The Supreme Court also holds that the employment tribunal was entitled to find that time spent by the claimants working for Uber was not limited (as Uber argued) to periods when they were actually driving passengers to their destinations, but included any period when the driver was logged into the Uber app within the territory in which the driver was licensed to operate and was ready and willing to accept trips


Which is basically anywhere?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:41 pm 
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What if the driver is working across borders like most of them do ?

I don't think the Justices considered that as cross-border wasn't an issue in this case.

My view is that once logged on waiting for work that will be classed as working time in respect of the minimum wage. However without clarification there is every chance courts could go the other way.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:43 pm 
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trotskys twin wrote:
Rest Assured the Tory Government are already considering changes to legislation that will enable Uber to carry on as normal.....................no doubt supported by that c88t Starmer :evil:



I read it as changes to VAT rules so that they can clobber Uber et al for VAT

I think this crisis has made the penny drop that the Gig economy is becoming a massive tax avoidance scheme and that is not going to pay for the NHS, Teachers and Military! VAT on all of the gig economy would improve the tax take considerably

I may be wrong but since Cameron and Osborne left the government Uber does NOT have so many friends in high places

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:43 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
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What if the driver is working across borders like most of them do ?

I don't think the Justices considered that as cross-border wasn't an issue in this case.

My view is that once logged on waiting for work that will be classed as working time in respect of the minimum wage. However without clarification there is every chance courts could go the other way.


My thoughts exactly

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