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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:21 pm 
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Edders wrote:
So if you have a small local firm lets call them say "rustic cabs" they will have meters on a set rate but drivers are free to knock a bit off or round the fare down for regulars, their terms and conditions of employment are flexible because every so often they sit down with the boss and discuss issues and make changes to suit. Feedback consists of old Mrs Smith giving the drivers a clip round the ear if they are too cheeky ! If the driver doesn't get on with a particular customer they just shout over he radio " I don't pick them up" and someone else goes and they do the next one or if they are front rank and there's a little £2.50 in shout can somebody else cover it and as for communication they know many of the customers very well and have a good chat on the journey

How would that be the same as the five main points that this judgement is made on ?

Certainly different facts, and I'm not saying the scenario you're portraying is the same as Uber. Certainly more flexible and informal, and not so automated as regards the technology used.

But I'm not sure informality, flexibility and automation should necessarily mean your relationship with your drivers is automatically different from Uber's.

For example, I've been directly involved in three offices, and none of them had any sort of written contract. It was all verbal (and implied terms, as the lawyers would say). Which I suspect is typical of many smaller operations - bigger ones will be more formal, and more likely to have a written contract.

But I'm not sure that really means an unwritten contract is any different to Uber's - they crack the whip, and you comply, or you're out.

As regards fares, indeed there may be more flexibility with smaller firms. But at the end of the day, you won't find any smaller firms with drivers deciding the fare for all customers. For offices I've worked for, generally fares were metered, and if they weren't (eg airport runs, regulars, proprietor's or controller's pals :roll: ) then it wasn't me who decided - it was the office. Of course, if I wanted I could charge less, and it would be open to an Uber driver to do likewise (by giving the customer part of the fare back). But the problem with an individual driver charging less is that customers would then want other drivers to charge the same, then other drivers would complain, word would get back to the office, and you know the rest.

On drivers selecting customers, again there's an element of that with Uber. Drivers can refuse work. But I'd guess Uber drivers can actually broom more jobs than a driver at the average mainstream office :-o

As for customer complaints and rating drivers, again the methods and automation stuff is different, but, for example, nothing to stop an Uber customer taking the driver to task without involving Uber. But at the end of the day, I think the point is that Uber can crack the whip when necessary, as would any office, up to, and including, dumping the driver.

As for communications between drivers and building relationships, I think this is more about *business* relationships rather than day to day chitchat. It's a bit like drivers with mobile phones handing their number to a customer of an office they're working for, and hoping they'll contact them directly. Again, I doubt if any office would allow that, and if it's not an instant sacking offence, it certainly would be if continued after a warning.

Anyway, could chunter on about this all day, but can't be bothered, and it would all be a bit pointless anyway.

But you may be right, although on the other hand I think you may be be looking for differences that in reality are minor and don't really affect the substance of the relationship.

Or a distinction without a difference, as some might say.

One good example might be an old-fashioned firm using two-way radios and comparing that to Uber's app. Which I don't think makes a blind bit of difference.

But I think that's why many experts and commentators do view Uber as different from the trade generally, and use terms such as 'ride-hailing', which I think is just meaningless nonsense.

I mean, when firms moved from two-way radios to computerised systems I don't think it really changed things as far as employment status was concerned. By the same token, I don't think moving from dataheads to apps has changed the employment status question either [-(


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:12 am 
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Those five points are EXACTLY how my firm works, and ALL the other firms in the area.
Every firm in the area sets fares below what the council allows AND have a further 10% discount card scheme.
As well as a whole list of 'rules' which drivers have no say in (hours worked, days off, uniform, car colour, equipment used, working for other firms, private work, delivery work).
But if you mention the employee word the reply is always 'if you dont like it sod off'.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:27 pm
Posts: 18616
sasha wrote:
Those five points are EXACTLY how my firm works, and ALL the other firms in the area.
Every firm in the area sets fares below what the council allows AND have a further 10% discount card scheme.
As well as a whole list of 'rules' which drivers have no say in (hours worked, days off, uniform, car colour, equipment used, working for other firms, private work, delivery work).
But if you mention the employee word the reply is always 'if you dont like it sod off'.

We changed from hackney to private hire because the hackney fares were to low. We increased prices, brought drivers into the business as employees instead of self employed now if a driver wants to join us and wants to remain self employed we are saying no.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:26 pm
Posts: 8311
grandad wrote:
sasha wrote:
Those five points are EXACTLY how my firm works, and ALL the other firms in the area.
Every firm in the area sets fares below what the council allows AND have a further 10% discount card scheme.
As well as a whole list of 'rules' which drivers have no say in (hours worked, days off, uniform, car colour, equipment used, working for other firms, private work, delivery work).
But if you mention the employee word the reply is always 'if you dont like it sod off'.

We changed from hackney to private hire because the hackney fares were to low. We increased prices, brought drivers into the business as employees instead of self employed now if a driver wants to join us and wants to remain self employed we are saying no.

But how many hours a week do they work ?

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:41 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:27 pm
Posts: 18616
MR T wrote:
grandad wrote:
sasha wrote:
Those five points are EXACTLY how my firm works, and ALL the other firms in the area.
Every firm in the area sets fares below what the council allows AND have a further 10% discount card scheme.
As well as a whole list of 'rules' which drivers have no say in (hours worked, days off, uniform, car colour, equipment used, working for other firms, private work, delivery work).
But if you mention the employee word the reply is always 'if you dont like it sod off'.

We changed from hackney to private hire because the hackney fares were to low. We increased prices, brought drivers into the business as employees instead of self employed now if a driver wants to join us and wants to remain self employed we are saying no.

But how many hours a week do they work ?

Obviously at the moment most are furloughed. but under normal circumstances they work the hours that we agree. if they want full time work they can have it, if they want part time they can have it. We have a white board in the office and they put their names down for the shifts that they are able to do. If we get more drivers wanting to work a certain shift than the work we expect then we discuss it with them and usually someone will change to another shift. We are not a big company with lots of drivers so it works great for us. We usually give the drivers first choice of the shifts and if there are any gaps then my son and I will step in to fill the gaps.

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Grandad,
old fart with no heart


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