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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:02 pm 
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https://yorkmix.com/police-set-to-start-turning-away-uber-drivers-from-york/

North Yorkshire Police looks set to take action to remove out of town Uber drivers who attempt to operate illegally in York.

Wendy Loveday, the chair of the Private Hire Association, has told YorkMix she has had meetings with a senior officer.

Police now agree with her that as Uber doesn’t hold a local licence for York it is breaking the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 (Section 46).

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:32 pm 
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Interesting, but surely not too dissimilar to the situation that arose in Reading.

And the Chief Magistrate decided the drivers had done nothing wrong.

If the vehicles are parked up legally, and they haven't got loads of signage, then I wonder exactly what crime they can be accused of?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:35 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Interesting, but surely not too dissimilar to the situation that arose in Reading.

And the Chief Magistrate decided the drivers had done nothing wrong.

If the vehicles are parked up legally, and they haven't got loads of signage, then I wonder exactly what crime they can be accused of?



yep :sad:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:38 pm 
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agabbycabbie wrote:
https://yorkmix.com/police-set-to-start-turning-away-uber-drivers-from-york/

North Yorkshire Police looks set to take action to remove out of town Uber drivers who attempt to operate illegally in York.

Wendy Loveday, the chair of the Private Hire Association, has told YorkMix she has had meetings with a senior officer.

Police now agree with her that as Uber doesn’t hold a local licence for York it is breaking the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 (Section 46).



When we were in York a few years ago it was full of Uber from out of town. Me being me I went to the local Taxi Rank for a cab back to the hotel.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:15 pm 
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It would be interesting to see what the police rationale behind this move is

Are they saying not licensed here so cannot accept bookings passed over to them despite three licenses rule being adhered to

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:45 pm 
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edders23 wrote:
It would be interesting to see what the police rationale behind this move is

Are they saying not licensed here so cannot accept bookings passed over to them despite three licenses rule being adhered to



The 3 licence rule according to the Supreme Court is that you have to be in the operators licenced district for the vehicle to accept a job.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:51 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Interesting, but surely not too dissimilar to the situation that arose in Reading.

And the Chief Magistrate decided the drivers had done nothing wrong.

If the vehicles are parked up legally, and they haven't got loads of signage, then I wonder exactly what crime they can be accused of?


Making themselves available for hire as they have to be logged onto the app, otherwise they would get no work, simple explanation of what is wrong with the Chief Magistrates decision which the Supreme Court has corrected in their findings.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:55 pm 
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Nidge2 wrote:


When we were in York a few years ago it was full of Uber from out of town. Me being me I went to the local Taxi Rank for a cab back to the hotel.

Don't tell me, you had to walk past the hotel to get to the rank but it was the principle.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:33 pm 
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Quote:
The 3 licence rule according to the Supreme Court is that you have to be in the operators licenced district for the vehicle to accept a job.

I’m really sure they didn't say that. :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:35 pm 
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Quote:
Making themselves available for hire as they have to be logged onto the app, otherwise they would get no work, simple explanation of what is wrong with the Chief Magistrates decision which the Supreme Court has corrected in their findings.

Just because you have said that twice doesn't mean it has any resemblance of truth.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:55 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Quote:
Making themselves available for hire as they have to be logged onto the app, otherwise they would get no work, simple explanation of what is wrong with the Chief Magistrates decision which the Supreme Court has corrected in their findings.

Just because you have said that twice doesn't mean it has any resemblance of truth.



Have a look at the last paragraph of the case summary.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:55 am 
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Get the distinct impression that some people on this thread haven't read the full article, so here it is - I've had plenty of practise with this kind of thing :wink:


Police set to start turning away Uber drivers from York

https://yorkmix.com/police-set-to-start ... from-york/

North Yorkshire Police looks set to take action to remove out of town Uber drivers who attempt to operate illegally in York.

Wendy Loveday, the chair of the Private Hire Association, has told YorkMix she has had meetings with a senior officer.

Police now agree with her that as Uber doesn’t hold a local licence for York it is breaking the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 (Section 46).

This says “no person shall in a controlled district operate any vehicle as a private hire vehicle without having a current licence under section 55 of this Act“

Wendy Loveday says that North Yorkshire Police took legal advice after she pointed this out. She says it means that Uber drivers from out of town should not be picking up fares in the city because they do not hold a proper licence to work here.

Uber was stripped of its licence in December 2017 when the City of York council gambling, licensing and regulatory committee voted by seven to three, with two abstentions, not to renewed it.

York was the first authority to flat out deny Uber clearence to operate on its streets.

YorkMix understands that officers on the streets will be briefed to engage with any Uber (or other out of town operators) drivers that they suspect to be breaching Section 46 of the 1976 legislation.

They will advise them of this law and ask them to leave York immediately.

Wendy Loveday says it means that they can legally bring a customer into York, from say Leeds, but once here they have to turn round and go back to the area where they hold a licence to operate.

“They were found to be not fit and proper to operate in York.

“I just can’t stand by while a massive company like Uber behave in the way they are doing by just ignoring all of the rules.

“These are rules that every other driver in York has to follow.”

A North Yorkshire Police spokesman said: “North Yorkshire Police is working with City of York Council on this matter, as taxi licensing and licensing enforcement sits with local authorities rather than the police.

“As part of our work to support City of York Council and our local communities, our officers will engage with Uber drivers if they are seen in the city. Any breaches will then be dealt with appropriately.”


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:55 am 
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So it's not about plying for hire, it's the old argument under the Misc Pro Act :-o

Quote:
Police now agree with her that as Uber doesn’t hold a local licence for York it is breaking the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 (Section 46).

This says “no person shall in a controlled district operate any vehicle as a private hire vehicle without having a current licence under section 55 of this Act“

So basically they're arguing that the triple lock thing is irrelevant.

I'm not so sure. I thought it was settled law. Haven't read the detailed cases and legislation myself, but as I read the above it doesn't actually stop cross-border working, as long as the car is licensed *somewhere*.

Of course, this was basically the argument that Gerald Gouriet QC came up with, but didn't York Council disagree with it?

Then they used it to revoke a PH op's licence, but said the firm wasn't actually breaching any law, it just had a bad attitude :badgrin:

Then Gerald Gouriet QC reappeared supporting the PH op, and said cross-border working was perfectly legal? :lol: :oops:

Or something like that.

Anyway, interesting five minute interview with PH rep Wendy Loveday on the website. She's certainly very articulate, but that's not to say she's stating the law authoritatively [-(

But she says police took legal advice from a barrister, and the barrister said cross-border working is illegal.

But interesting that Ms Loveday agrees that Uber can bring in jobs from Leeds (say), but can't hang around waiting for work, and even if there's a job available immediately they can't accept it.

So by her reckoning Uber couldn't do the return job? :-k

Unfortunately that point wasn't addressed. But I think that's the most obvious example of where the argument falls down.

(Also interesting is that Ms Loveday said police had also considered the Covid laws, but said they weren't relevant. Which is interesting, because when I read this story last night, I immediately thought of Merseyside Police using the Covid rules to stop drivers working cross-border. Of course, North Yorks Police using different laws here, but I'd put money on both forces exceeding their powers here [-( )


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:07 am 
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And worth rereading this from 2019:

In August 2019, York Press wrote:
THE city council should not change its taxi licensing policy towards out-of-town drivers working in York - under recommendations made to senior councillors.

City of York Council could face major risks - including significant costs and a legal fight in a national court - if it tries to stop Uber and other taxi companies registered outside the area operating in York, according to a report.

The council’s current legal position is that if a private hire vehicle’s three licences - operator, driver and vehicle - have all come from the same local authority then the driver can accept journeys anywhere in England and Wale, regardless of where the fare starts, passes through or ends.

Councillors will be asked not to change this policy because, according to the report, it could lead to thousands of pounds of legal costs because in other cases courts have not found out-of-town drivers to be acting unlawfully by picking up fares in other areas.

The report says: “This is national issue and the situation in York is similar to that in many other towns and cities in the country.

“For example, Medway Council have a statement on their website in relation to Uber which says ‘As the law stands, at present the Council do not believe that Uber is acting unlawfully within the council’s area’.

“Furthermore, Uber are not the only firm who work under the ‘triple licensing rule’ and it is said that other firms work to this model on race days in York for example.”

It adds that the council has sought legal advice on the issue and a lawyer found that a legal opinion by Gerald Gouriet QC for the York Private Hire Association is “untenable”.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:18 am 
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So if a customer books me to take them to a hotel in York on a Friday and to bring them back on the Sunday, can I do that?

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