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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:19 pm 
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Quite a good video showing the practical difficulties and dangers for drivers caused by Spaces for People in Edinburgh.

The examples are about a WAV unloading a wheelchair user, but of course it doesn't take a huge stretch of the imagination to extend that to difficulties for all HCs, PHVs and road users generally.

But it's better to visit the weblink and view the video rather than rely on the text and videograbs below.

But even in view of lockdown, can't believe how quiet the traffic is in the video. Anything near normal traffic levels and stuff like this would cause utter congestion and chaos.


Cab firm video challenges council over Edinburgh road scheme safety fears

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/ ... rs-3191260

A capital taxi firm has produced a video attacking the council’s controversial Spaces for People traffic schemes - describing them as ‘an accident waiting to happen’.

The video, produced by Atholl Place-based firm City Cabs, provides several examples of what it calls ‘risk assessment failures’.

The first example shows a taxi pulled into a ‘floating parking bay’ - a parking spot situated between a cycle lane and the main carriageway - on George IV Bridge, during which a disabled passenger alights from the cab.

As the taxi is parked, a Lothian Bus overtakes the taxi, and drives past a traffic island on the wrong side of the road, followed by a stream of following cars.

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Image: City Cabs/Edinburgh Evening News

After the video was shown to Edinburgh City Council officers, a spokesperson for the council said the bus should have returned to the correct lane, and the council will highlight this with Lothian Buses.

During the second example in the video, the taxi and disabled occupant attempt the same procedure on George IV Bridge.

This time, a cyclist using the cycle lane between the floating parking bay and the pedestrian walkway passes the taxi driver at speed, which the video describes as a ‘very dangerous situation’.

In response, a council spokesperson said: “The cyclist passes around the taxi driver with around 0.5m between them.

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Image: City Cabs/Edinburgh Evening News

“The cyclist should have stopped and allowed the taxi driver to complete the task.

“This is down to cycling behaviour rather than a design flaw.”

In the same clip, a Lothian Bus hits the traffic island outside of the George IV Bar, which is described as ‘a very dangerous situation for pedestrians and cyclists’.

The council spokesperson continued: “In this example a black car is illegally parked on the opposite side of the road, potentially making it more difficult for the bus to approach the island at the correct angle.

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Image: City Cabs/Edinburgh Evening News

“However, as above this manoeuvre has been tracked and can be done safely by buses without clipping the traffic island.”

In the third example, again showing the same procedure on George IV Bridge, another cyclist passes the taxi driver at speed, a bus mounts the traffic island outside of the George IV Bridge, and a second cyclist nearly collides with an oncoming van as it overtakes the taxi, as the cycle lane is blocked by the taxi's disability ramp.

The council spokesperson said: “Due to the black car being illegally parked [on the George IV Bar side of the road] the van and cyclist both try to pass at the same time using the central area.

“The van does stop and allows the cyclist to pass. This is down to driver/parking behaviour rather than a design flaw.

Image
Image: City Cabs/Edinburgh Evening News

“With regards to the bus clipping the island, this manoeuvre has been tracked and can be done safely by buses without clipping the traffic island.”

The video concludes: “To summarise, the Spaces for People concept is dangerous.

“Examples show that on a quiet, locked-down Edinburgh day, within a time frame of only an hour there was serious risk - imagine when Edinburgh is back to peak tourism - carnage will follow!”

City Centre councillor Karen Doran, Labour vice convener of the council’s transport committee, said: “The changes introduced on George IV Bridge have not only created a protected route for those travelling by bike into the city centre, but will provide extra space for people to walk and wheel safely once restrictions begin to be lifted in the near future.

“This scheme has been risk assessed and has been subject to a road safety audit, in addition to our own tracking of vehicles to ensure sufficient space for passing, and we are confident it is safe for all road users, assuming they travel in a responsible manner.

“We have had a good deal of positive feedback from people using this route, and have made sure there is still space for loading and dropping people off where needed.

“However, as with all Spaces for People measures, we will continue to monitor it and make any tweaks to improve it where necessary.”

Colinton and Fairmilehead councillor, Jason Rust, Conservatives, said: “This footage brings to life some of the enormous practical difficulties road users are facing with the council’s Spaces for People measures and particularly those with mobility issues.

“A cab stopped legally and situated as sensibly as possible in the broadest part of road between the traffic islands and yet massive challenges faced.

“These movements are no doubt regular occurrences and it is helpful this has been caught on film.”


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:20 pm 
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Edinburgh City Council spokesperson wrote:
“With regards to the bus clipping the island, this manoeuvre has been tracked and can be done safely by buses without clipping the traffic island.”

Maybe this 'spokesperson' could get out of their office and demonstrate how to drive the bus without clipping the island ](*,)

City Centre councillor Karen Doran, Labour vice convener of the council’s transport committee wrote:
“The changes introduced on George IV Bridge have not only created a protected route for those travelling by bike into the city centre, but will provide extra space for people to walk and wheel safely once restrictions begin to be lifted in the near future.

“This scheme has been risk assessed and has been subject to a road safety audit, in addition to our own tracking of vehicles to ensure sufficient space for passing, and we are confident it is safe for all road users, assuming they travel in a responsible manner.

“We have had a good deal of positive feedback from people using this route, and have made sure there is still space for loading and dropping people off where needed.

“However, as with all Spaces for People measures, we will continue to monitor it and make any tweaks to improve it where necessary.”

Add a few 'tweaks' to that statement and it's much the same as the PR bull regurgitated by Fife Council, and indeed any other council that's adopted Spaces for People stuff :roll:

And what's the betting City Centre councillor Karen Doran, Labour vice convener of the council’s transport committee, didn't really say that at all, rather than just a statement written by someone else and put out in her name =D>


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:11 pm 
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Spaces for people :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:13 pm 
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Spaces for people is a nightmare of a scheme dreamt up by car haters and other assorted enviro loops....They'd rather see the country go to the dogs rather than be helpfull to business.

As long as their precious little jobs in the city are safe they don't give a fig about the rest of us who are struggling to make a living, they are the tiniest of tails who have been emboldened to campaign by their fellow loops at Holyrood and other Scottish local Authorities, many of whom have never had a proper Job in the real world.


Feck me...Edinburgh has huge wide pavements and still they want to steal the bloody roads as well, puts me right off the place.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:35 pm 
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There is simply too many tree hugging civil servants playing games with people livelihoods and with people's safety.

And then they spend the rest of their lives justifying their schemes to thick councillors who get elected by equally thick voters.

In short we are doomed. :sad:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:44 am 
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Sussex wrote:
There is simply too many tree hugging civil servants playing games with people livelihoods and with people's safety.

And then they spend the rest of their lives justifying their schemes to thick councillors who get elected by equally thick voters.

In short we are doomed. :sad:


They are seeking to control the young and gullible through mission creep, most of these "Temporary" schemes will never be rolled backed and will be sold to the thick voter as having been a great success.

Our region has had a trial blanket 20MPH zone forced on every Village and Town at great expense, no one other than Sustran, the Cycle Lobby and Spaces for People had any say in this so called trial, we are around 8 months into an 18mth experiment to see what success it brings, yet barely 8 months in and they already trying to tell us how successful it's being even though their has been no real reduction in various types of transport/pedestrian injury since their historical evidence started way back in 2010.

There has been no increase in average annual injuries sustained or severity of injury in the above groups between 2010 and prior to the commencement date of these trials, yet they pretend that even though there has been no increase in injury it was all down to their 20MPH zones and that's utter tosh as they made no difference.

The reality is 90% of drivers are ignoring these new speed limits (not me of course) and it makes a mockery of all their findings.....these people are manipulating the facts to suit their own agenda and our young have been to brainwashed to believe it without question.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:37 am 
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Bloodnock wrote:
...most of these "Temporary" schemes will never be rolled backed and will be sold to the thick voter as having been a great success.

Indeed, and a lot of the stuff was just using Covid as a pretence to give pedestrians priority, or whatever euphemism they're using to get one over drivers.

That said, most of the Spaces for People stuff is St Andrews has now disappeared, except of course for the taxi rank stuff :roll:

Not really much debate about it now, and I think everyone's just hoping the last of the restrictions will be lifted soon, but there was a piece in the Courier recently:


Calls to remove ‘dangerous’ St Andrews barriers scattered on road

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/lo ... d-on-road/

A leading St Andrews businessman has called for traffic barriers erected in the town to be removed amid fears over safety after high winds blew them over.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:38 am 
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The whole town centre was supposed to become a 20mph zone as well from January, but not sure what's happened to that, but to be honest I've been trying *not* to pay too much attention to it all.

State of some of the roads though - on one of the main through roads I'm down to literally walking pace. It's right on a very tight and narrow corner, though, so given the amount of tourists and visitors that must pass that bit it would take them completely by surprise. So it's a good job there are very few visitors and tourists... :roll:


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