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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:01 am 
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Maybe should have put this in the Blackpool thread about a one-year badge to attract new drivers etc, but here it is :?


Blackpool taxi fares rise is agreed

https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news ... ed-3377512

Taxi fares in Blackpool are set to increase by an average of five per cent as part of a package of measures which it is also hoped will help attract more drivers to the trade.

Councillors agreed to a request from the Blackpool Licensed Taxi Operators Association (BLTOA) for changes which also include bringing forward the times when more expensive night time fares come into effect.

It means the average fare for a two mile journey before 9pm (tariff one) will increase to £6 from £5.80 which is in line with national averages.

Late evening fares (tariff two) will kick in an hour earlier at 9pm instead of 10pm, while the early hours tariff (tariff three), which includes a 60p supplement on the fare, will start from midnight instead of 1am.

The effect of the overall changes, which were approved by the council’s public protection sub-committee, is an average increase is 5.29 per cent. The changes will now be advertised before being implemented.

A council report said higher late night fares were “payable to drivers for working anti-social hours” so the measure would “help ensure taxi availability”.

The report adds: “The taxi trade has reported a shortage of drivers recently particularly during the evening/night and it is hoped these measures will help to assist in bridging that gap.

“BLTOA has stated in their submission that there have been complaints that there are insufficient drivers late at night and in the early hours of the morning.

“Following informal discussions with private hire operators and BLTOA the licensing service would support those concerns.”

It was reported last month some taxi operators in the town had half the usual number of drivers available to work after 8pm on a Saturday night.

The lack of cabbies has been blamed on drivers finding alternative jobs during the Covid pandemic and not returning to the industry.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:31 am 
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I bet that confuses visitors to the town with 3 different tariffs !

The drivers will be in for whole load of grief from punters over the changed times hope they've got thick skins !

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:58 pm 
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Well, that 20p increase would swing it for me. Not.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:40 pm 
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Indeed, Jimbo, I have no complaint about fares here, but just haven't been able to stomach staying up until the bitter end since we got back to normal licensing hours, although that's what I've normally done for most of the last 25 years ](*,)

But after a year-and-a-half of either being at home 24 hours or at least getting home at a reasonable hour, I just can't summon up the effort :sad:

And because it's freshers' week here it'll be mainly pished up students going a mile at most, with little chance of anything different :roll:

And because it's freshers' week the clubs and students' union are allowed to open until 3am rather than the normal 2am. So that would be getting home about 4am. And there's certainly not much been happening around midnight/1am by which time almost all the non-students have disappeared, so it would be a long wait for a busy half-hour or so :roll:

But I'll either have to get back more to my normal hours soon, or start working longer hours and more during the day :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:53 pm 
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Quote:
Late evening fares (tariff two) will kick in an hour earlier at 9pm instead of 10pm, while the early hours tariff (tariff three), which includes a 60p supplement on the fare, will start from midnight instead of 1am.

So when we have Uber's surges of 100%/200%/300%, the taxi trade thinks a few pence here and there will solve their recruitment problems. #-o

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:54 pm 
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Quote:
“BLTOA has stated in their submission that there have been complaints that there are insufficient drivers late at night and in the early hours of the morning.

Interesting that they are bemoaning the shortage of drivers, not the shortage of cabs. :-k

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:03 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Quote:
Late evening fares (tariff two) will kick in an hour earlier at 9pm instead of 10pm, while the early hours tariff (tariff three), which includes a 60p supplement on the fare, will start from midnight instead of 1am.

So when we have Uber's surges of 100%/200%/300%, the taxi trade thinks a few pence here and there will solve their recruitment problems. #-o



well it is one of the cheapest towns in the UK I saw a video this week about two flats close to the seafront being sold for £5000 each it isn't an expensive place to live so 20p on the tariff might be all they need

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:32 am 
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The thing is the two big firms in Blackpool charge less than the council flag drop and running mile (one used to charge T1 24/7).
So the quoted average £6 for a two mile journey will actually be around £5 !

The last three fare rises they froze fares and only put 20p on the flag drop at the last rise. Doubt they'll get any more drivers (except mugs).


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:19 pm 
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Doubt they'll get any more drivers (except mugs).

There are a million vacancies according to the stats.

Who in their right mind is going to choose this trade over other opportunities?

Earning minimum wage for unsociable hours isn't an attractive option for anyone with a brain.

Those of us still in the trade should be treated with much more respect from operators and regulators, not treated as slave labour by some operators and mere numbers by some regulators.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:43 am 
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sasha wrote:
The thing is the two big firms in Blackpool charge less than the council flag drop and running mile (one used to charge T1 24/7).
So the quoted average £6 for a two mile journey will actually be around £5 !

The last three fare rises they froze fares and only put 20p on the flag drop at the last rise. Doubt they'll get any more drivers (except mugs).

As is often the case the fare rises are assessed from the perspective of pen-pushers in an office rather than the reality of those working at the coal face :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:22 pm 
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I've spent years and years criticising large increases in taxi fares due to me believing our customers will not accept it, and in the end it could lose us business.

However Uber has proved me wrong with their surge policies.

If punters will pay surge prices, which can be triple the normal rate, then why should our trade be pi**ing around with a 20p or £1 increase for those drivers working unsociable hours?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:45 am 
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Sussex wrote:
I've spent years and years criticising large increases in taxi fares due to me believing our customers will not accept it, and in the end it could lose us business.

However Uber has proved me wrong with their surge policies.

If punters will pay surge prices, which can be triple the normal rate, then why should our trade be pi**ing around with a 20p or £1 increase for those drivers working unsociable hours?
I have also proved this wrong in my area. We changed from Hackney to Private hire because the Hackney fares were, in my opinion, to low. We immediately increased our fares and nobody said a word. We have changed the time when night fares apply on Fridays and Saturdays from 23.00 to 19.00, nobody has said a word. The latest Hackney fare review was eventually submitted by me and the only people who moaned were some of the drivers who all said it would kill the trade. One month in and I spoke to a member of our licensing team who had spoken to the drivers and guess what, nobody has said a word and they are all happy now. There were even some on here who thought that the rise was to much.
I have to wonder why so many drivers have such a low view of their worth and are always trying to keep fares cheap instead of realising that they are running a business and profit should not be a dirty word.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:07 pm 
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Meant to reply to this, but forgot, and only remembered because of the mention of fare setting in the Bounds case and Grandad's comment about the fare rise in Edders' SKDC thread :wink:

Anyway, find it very hard to believe that no one has *ever* complained about a significant tariff hike - about one pound on the 2 mile run, was it?

Anyway, leaving that aside, all this is a pet subject of mine, and won't bore you with the details.

But from what I know it may be that Grandad's firm has something of a 'dominant position' (to use the technical term) in the local market, and to that extent fare rises are more sustainable.

On the other hand, if competition is fierce and there are several dominant suppliers in a local market, then maybe not so easy to increase fares substantially.

But there are numerous other factors, such as the supply of drivers, which is obvioulsy an issue just now in some locations, and to that extent allows fares to be pushed upwards, as Uber's 'dynamic' pricing model demonstrates. And of course, there's always been a short-term element to that (late Saturday, early Sunday, most obviously), but the driver thing is obviously more of a long-term issue. Both both can push prices upwards.

On the other hand, most firms don't change prices in the short-term like Uber do, and of course its technology that's enabled that to happen. Our HC circuits with two-way radios and with HC meters fitted obviously can't surge-price, both because they're limited in what they can charge, and the technology they use just doesn't allow that to happen. (Although of course T2, T3 etc are a crude form of surge-pricing via council-regulated tariffs.)

And, of course, to the extent that HC ciruits dominate a local market then that will also influence what PH circuits charge, particularly if they're runing mixed fleets, and/or PHVs charge the HC tariff.

Then there's stuff like brand loyalty, which will obviously be a factor in the likes of Melton, and with Uber nationally. Uber's maybe a bit like Apple and iMacs, or whatever, when people will pay a premium price just for the brand, with the practical benefits being dubious. And obviously a lot of people like the app-booking model in terms of tracking cars etc, although obviously the bigger mainstream firms have also embraced that kind of technology now too.

And another thing about Uber's surging and claims that to that extent it shows what can be done in terms of fare hikes - of course, the point of the whole thing is that people are paying to get a car immediately, so to that extent it's normally a very short-term thing, at least as fare as the bigger multipliers are concerned.

Another thing is that the sustainability of a fare rise may depend where you're starting from. A pound on a two-mile run maybe a bit different for a council near the top of the PHTM tables, but maybe different for Melton, which was 304 in the PHTM tables, rising to 109.

But although I obviously want to maximise my own income, my basic argument with regard to fare rises is this - you couldn't just increase a £5 run to £10 and assume that in a few weeks time you'll still have double your take at the end of your shift [-(


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:51 pm 
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I'm not sure the dominant position applies in areas that have a significant Uber presence.

People, usually teens/20-year-olds, don't seem to care what they pay, or a significant number of them don't seem to care.

Else the surge wouldn't happen.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:14 am 
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Sussex wrote:
I'm not sure the dominant position applies in areas that have a significant Uber presence.

So you mean Uber has the dominant position instead? :-k

Lots of ways to look at these things. If a firm has 80% of the local market, then the dominant position seems self-evident.

However, it could have less than half the local market, but still hold a dominant position, I suspect. For example, it could have 40%, but the others may have 10% or less each, so the biggest firm could 'punch above its weight' in terms of dictating fares in the local market etc.

And, for example, Uber might just have a 20% share in Bristol, for example. But if you're visiting Bristol from London, say, and you're using Uber all the time, then Uber might be said to have a dominant position from the point of view of a visitor to Bristol, who won't know the local firms.

So you could look at market dominance from the position of locals, and from the position of visitors to Brighton, say, and come up with two very different answers as to who holds a dominant position in the local market, if anyone.

Then there's stuff like brand loyalty and convenience, which might explain why Uber can charge huge surge multiples and get away with it.

But I'm guessing it's mostly about knowing they'll get a car almost immediately by paying the premium, and they can track it on the app, unlike Joe's Minicabs, who promise a car will be there in five minutes, and 45 minutes later the punter has no idea where the car is, and they're having to phone back.

Of course, that's not absolute, but again the surge pricing model depends on a lot of people going elsewhere because of the higher price - as you recently said, some people will tell you that they'll only use local firms when Uber is surging :?

And all the above is kind of assuming a free market as regards fare-setting. But, of course, in the cab trade it's all complicated by regulated HC tariffs and the extent to which that in itself has a dominant (or at least influential) position in the local market.

Anyway, that's just scratching the surface. Advise buying textbook on microeconomics and applying it to the cab trade. It'll do your nut :D

Have got a couple of such books spare if anyone's interested - no, I didn't read them either :oops: :lol:


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