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Brighton drivers in rows with passengers over card payments
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Author:  StuartW [ Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Brighton drivers in rows with passengers over card payments
Obviously one or two previous threads on this, but the last one got sidetracked a bit into the fare stuff [-(


'Cabbies in Brighton row with passengers over card payments'

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/2023682 ... -payments/

Image
Image: The Argus

CABBIES have been having late-night disputes about passengers wanting to pay their taxi fare by debit or credit card, councillors were told.

Drivers have had several altercations either with taxi marshals or passengers late at night or in the early hours of the morning, according to Conservative councillor Dee Simson.

She told Brighton and Hove City Council’s licensing committee that the disputes had been reported in East Street and West Street, in Brighton, where the taxi marshals are based.

They had happened since a rule change earlier this year, requiring taxis to offer cashless payment from the start of last month.

But the rule requiring a card or phone reader applies only to drivers with a new licence or a renewed licence.

When the licensing committee last met in February, taxi trade representatives told councillors that most drivers had card readers.

But at Hove Town Hall last week, Cllr Simson said that she had received several reports of “altercations” over card payments.

She told the committee: “I am hoping as time goes on these altercations between taxi marshals and / or customers and taxi drivers should reduce because more will have card machines.

“I wondered if we have a plan B in case it doesn’t reduce?

“The minutes of the last meeting said the majority of (taxis) have card machines so why is this happening?”

Cllr Simson said that the rules gave passengers the choice of how they paid – not the driver.

Council licensing officer Mark Seymour said that the new rules were a licence condition for about 60 drivers – and the number would rise.

Mr Seymour said: “Some of the cases are drivers using it as an excuse not to take passengers rather than accusing them of being drunk or with food. It’s an easy option to refuse.”

Officers kept a spreadsheet to track which drivers were refusing fares, councillors were told. And, if necessary, officials would speak to drivers.

When the change was proposed, the Brighton and Hove Cab Trade Association asked the council to consult drivers about the payment rules.

The results reflected the association’s own poll of members, with most backing the change, according to a report to the council’s licensing committee in February.
Author:  StuartW [ Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brighton drivers in rows with passengers over card payme
Quote:
But the rule requiring a card or phone reader applies only to drivers with a new licence or a renewed licence.

And they wonder why there's confusion and conflict :roll:

Can't remember if that aspect of it was raised in the past, but can't they just impose it on all drivers at once, rather than just new licences and renewals? :-s

But presumably that's just one of the angles, and part of the problem is mandated drivers still refusing cards.

But from the public's perspective, I think most unlikely to know that it only applies to newbies and renewals, so it's a recipe for confusion and conflict ](*,)
Author:  Sussex [ Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brighton drivers in rows with passengers over card payme
Quote:
Can't remember if that aspect of it was raised in the past, but can't they just impose it on all drivers at once, rather than just new licences and renewals? :-s

It's not being imposed on any drivers, the new card rules apply to vehicles.

If they applied to drivers then it would be a case of it applying to everyone from day 1.

As it applies to vehicles, which I think is the best way, it can only apply to newly licensed vehicles and existing vehicles on renewal.
Author:  bloodnock [ Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brighton drivers in rows with passengers over card payme
If i were forced to take card payments I'd lose a lot of money simply because my Phone app based Card reader wouldnt work due to a lack of Cell phone signal in around 30% of my working area.....out here in the sticks the right to refuse a card and request cash is crucial.
Author:  StuartW [ Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brighton drivers in rows with passengers over card payme
Sussex wrote:
It's not being imposed on any drivers, the new card rules apply to vehicles.

Ah, yes, I did wonder if that was the explanation (and you may have said that before), and that the stuff in the article was the usual press conflation of vehicles and drivers:
The Argus wrote:
But the rule requiring a card or phone reader applies only to drivers with a new licence or a renewed licence.

But still not entirely sure why it can only apply to new plates or renewals. That suggests to me they've over-regulated in terms of the spec, and this leads to over-regulation in terms of only being able to introduce it when the vehicles are tested. (Recall the hoohah in Liverpool when they specified a certain type of equipment which the trade claimed could easily be vandalised etc, and the council eventually relented with a less demanding spec.

And, irrespective of the spec, don't know why they couldn't just introduce it to all on a specified date, then do the necessary when each vehicle is tested, or whatever the particular issue is. And, of course, deal with any particular compliance problems in the interim.

And it's one of these daft licensing regime things that makes the trade look bad in the eyes of the public, when at the end of the day it's the fault of the politicians and pen-pushers [-(
Author:  grandad [ Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brighton drivers in rows with passengers over card payme
Sussex wrote:
Quote:
Can't remember if that aspect of it was raised in the past, but can't they just impose it on all drivers at once, rather than just new licences and renewals? :-s

It's not being imposed on any drivers, the new card rules apply to vehicles.

If they applied to drivers then it would be a case of it applying to everyone from day 1.

As it applies to vehicles, which I think is the best way, it can only apply to newly licensed vehicles and existing vehicles on renewal.

If the card reader rule applies to vehicles, does that mean the the driver can choose if he/she wants to use it as long as it is in the vehicle?
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brighton drivers in rows with passengers over card payme
Quote:
But still not entirely sure why it can only apply to new plates or renewals.

Vehicles are licensed for a year, you can't change those license rules halfway through it.

Quote:
And, irrespective of the spec, don't know why they couldn't just introduce it to all on a specified date, then do the necessary when each vehicle is tested, or whatever the particular issue is. And, of course, deal with any particular compliance problems in the interim.

That's what they have done.
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brighton drivers in rows with passengers over card payme
Quote:
If the card reader rule applies to vehicles, does that mean the the driver can choose if he/she wants to use it as long as it is in the vehicle?

It's not an option, it must be used.

A driver will now have no reason to refuse a fare should the customer require card payment.

Therefore the driver will not be in breach of the card reader rule, he will be in breach of the no reasonable excuse rule.

But the owner will be in breach of the card reader rule.
Author:  StuartW [ Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brighton drivers in rows with passengers over card payme
Sussex wrote:
Quote:
And, irrespective of the spec, don't know why they couldn't just introduce it to all on a specified date, then do the necessary when each vehicle is tested, or whatever the particular issue is. And, of course, deal with any particular compliance problems in the interim.

That's what they have done.

Indeed, but what I meant was make it compulsory for all vehicles to have them and all drivers compelled to use them on a particular date.

But I get your point about the legalities and the licensing dimension, and that's why it'll all look a bit daft to members of the public, and to experts and commentators in various fields.
Author:  Sussex [ Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brighton drivers in rows with passengers over card payme
That’s the problem when you are dealing with Victorian legislation.

And cab drivers. :D
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