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Stoke PHD slams spycar fine for dropping on disused bus stop
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Author:  StuartW [ Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Stoke PHD slams spycar fine for dropping on disused bus stop
Shedload of comments on the Sentinel's website, and not much sympathy for the driver. Was expecting that, but also expecting a degree of support as well, but not much evidence of that :?


Hanley cabbie slams council after landing £35 bus stop fine

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/st ... er-7671969

Vaseem Ahmed has been snared by Stoke-on-Trent City Council's controversial 'cash cow spy car'

Image
Image: Pete Stonier/Stoke Sentinel

Taxi driver Vaseem Ahmed has been slapped with a £35 parking penalty - after dropping off passengers in a 'disused' bus stop. The 50-year-old was snared by Stoke-on-Trent City Council's controversial 'spy car' which trawls the streets catching rule-breaking drivers.

But he says the bus stop - outside Santander, on Town Road, in Hanley - has not been used for years and is the perfect location for elderly Potteries Centre shoppers. The grandad-of-two, from Etruria, has already lost one appeal against his parking penalty to the council.

Vaseem says he is not the first taxi driver to be caught by the CCTV car. He has labelled it a ‘cash cow’.

He said: “The bus stop hasn’t been in use for three years and the council has just left it there as a cash cow. We always drop passengers off there everyday - and then they come by in their little spy car and just fine us.

“I’m not bothered about the £35. But the council should remove the bus stop - and that’s my issue. They should make it a double-yellow line where you can stop off, drop and go.

“Instead, it’s just a cash cow. The spy camera car comes past, clicks a photo, and there’s no ticket as you haven’t left the car anywhere, and then you get a fine.”

Image
Image: Pete Stonier/Stoke Sentinel

StokeonTrentLive understands that Vaseem’s initial appeal was rejected on the grounds that the bus stop is still used by private buses. The taxi driver of 25 years is now pursuing a second appeal.

A council spokesman said: "We keep the road network under review as the city changes. Drivers risk getting a penalty notice if they park in contravention.

"We appreciate that in some circumstances, for example when a bus stop is no longer in use, restrictions are felt to be unnecessary. However, the signage and charges are still active while highways are reviewed. Occupational drivers, like couriers, taxi and private hire vehicle drivers should abide by the local traffic rules."
Author:  heathcote [ Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stoke PHD slams spycar fine for dropping on disused bus
There is no such thing as private buses, coaches are not allowed to stop in bus stops.
Author:  Sussex [ Sun Oct 16, 2022 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stoke PHD slams spycar fine for dropping on disused bus
Since when have taxi/PH drivers not been able to drop in bus stops, be they used or unused?

Suggest someone in that area reads this thread and judgement.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=15938
Author:  Chris the Fish [ Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stoke PHD slams spycar fine for dropping on disused bus
Makda is double yellow lines not Bus Stops.

Taxis may stop on Broad Yellow Band Bus Stops to load or unload passengers, PH may not. (Taxi and PH are qualified elsewhere in the SI.) So SI 3113 of 2002 Reg 29, Para 4 (d) is operative.

Quote
SI 3113 2002 Regulation 29

SCHEDULE 19BUS STOP AND BUS STAND CLEARWAYS AND BOX (d)JUNCTIONS
PART I
SIGNIFICANCE OF BUS STOP AND BUS STAND CLEARWAY MARKINGS
Interpretation of Part I of Schedule
1. For the purposes of this Part of this Schedule—
(a)“clearway” means an area of carriageway bounded by the continuous and broken straight yellow lines comprised in the road marking in diagram 1025.1, 1025.3 or 1025.4 and “bus stop clearway” means a clearway on which the words “BUS STOP” are marked; and
(b)a vehicle shall be taken to have stopped within a clearway if—
(i)any point in the clearway is below the vehicle or its load (if any); and
(ii)the vehicle is stationary.
Prohibition conveyed by road markings
2. The road markings in diagrams 1025.1, 1025.3 and 1025.4 shall each convey the prohibition that, subject to the exceptions specified in paragraphs 3 and 4, no person driving a vehicle shall cause it to stop within the clearway—
(a)at any time, if the sign shown in diagram 974 or 975 placed in conjunction with the markings is varied so as to omit the reference to times of day; or
(b)in any other case, during the period specified on that sign.
Exceptions in favour of buses
3. Nothing in paragraph 2 applies to the driver of a bus being used in the provision of a local service who causes the bus to stop within the clearway for so long as may be necessary—
(a)to maintain the published timetable for the service (provided, in the case of a bus stop clearway, the bus is not stopped within the clearway for a period exceeding two minutes);
(b)to enable passengers to board or alight from the bus; or
(c)to enable the crew of the bus to be changed.
Other exceptions
4.—(1) Nothing in paragraph 2 applies in relation to—
(a)a vehicle being used for fire brigade, ambulance or police purposes;
(b)anything done with the permission or at the direction of—
(i)a constable in uniform;
(ii)a traffic warden; or
(iii)where the clearway is in a special parking area designated under Part II of the Road Traffic Act 1991 or Schedule 3 to that Act, a parking attendant appointed under section 63A of the 1984 Act(1);
(c)a vehicle which is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond the driver’s control or which has to be stopped in order to avoid injury or damage to persons or property;
(d)a taxi which is stationary only for so long as may be reasonably necessary for a passenger to board or alight and to load or unload any luggage of the passenger;
(e)a marked vehicle which, whilst used by a universal service provider in the course of the provision of a universal postal service, is stationary only for so long as may be reasonably necessary for postal packets to be collected;
(f)a vehicle driven by a person whilst being trained to drive a bus operating local services who, as part of his training, stops the vehicle within a clearway for no longer than necessary to simulate the stopping of a bus at a bus stop for the purpose of picking up and setting down passengers;
(g)a vehicle which is stationary in order that it may be used for one or more of the purposes specified in paragraph 5 and which cannot be used for such a purpose without stopping in the clearway.
(2) In sub-paragraph (1)(e) the expressions “universal service provider”, “provision of a universal postal service” and “postal packet” shall bear the same meanings as in the Postal Services Act 2000(2).
End Quote.
Author:  Sussex [ Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stoke PHD slams spycar fine for dropping on disused bus
The issue wasn’t solely down to where the lad was dropping in Makda, think it was a red route.

The main issue was the practicable/safety way a taxi or PH driver can drop and pick up customers.

The judge said that if it’s a short period of merely dropping or picking up then no offence occurs.

I would definitely put that council to the Makda test.
Author:  roythebus [ Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stoke PHD slams spycar fine for dropping on disused bus
Thank goodness someone else copied that lot for me!
Correct, taxis may pick up and set down on bus stop clearways, private hire cannot. "Coaches", which no longer exist in legislation, meaning presumably any large passenger vehicle not providing a local service (being usually defined as a registered local bus service or works service) is not allowed to stop there, daft as it may seem! Yet they can stop quite legally on double yellows to pick up/set down.

It doesn't matter that a bus stop is no longer used by any bus routes. There's a couple of bus stops near me that have never had a bus service yet are still enforced. Road signs are there 24/7.

But on the bus stop mentioned, is there a small yellow sign saying "no stopping except buses"? If not that is a good reason for winning an appeal as I have done in the recent past. All the signage must be there and presented to the adjudicator.

I'm unsure as to the legality of a spy car camera being used for such enforcement.
Author:  edders23 [ Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stoke PHD slams spycar fine for dropping on disused bus
Quote:
I'm unsure as to the legality of a spy car camera being used for such enforcement.


I seem to remember a long while back a couple of councils in essex were raking in 1000's of pounds using these vehicles and that caused a lot of column inches to be taken up in the local rags along with challenges from members of the local trade. But to no avail !

Stoke IIRC still has saloon hackneys which is unusual for a place it's size so I am guessing that this chap is Hackney so I suspect that if he did challenge the penalty the council might be on a sticky wicket
Author:  StuartW [ Tue Oct 18, 2022 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stoke PHD slams spycar fine for dropping on disused bus
edders23 wrote:
Stoke IIRC still has saloon hackneys which is unusual for a place it's size so I am guessing that this chap is Hackney...

Don't quite agree with your logic [-(

Obviously if it's saloon HCs in Stoke then slightly more chance than most big cities that he'd be an HC, but statistically I suspect the chances are he's still PH.
Author:  grandad [ Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stoke PHD slams spycar fine for dropping on disused bus
Sussex wrote:
Since when have taxi/PH drivers not been able to drop in bus stops, be they used or unused?

Suggest someone in that area reads this thread and judgement.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=15938
It has always been my understanding yhat we can't stop on bus stops. I got a ticket from the County Council for dropping off a passenger at a bus stop whilst working on a Council contract that instructed me to drop off and pick up at that stop. This was when we were hackney.
Author:  Chris the Fish [ Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stoke PHD slams spycar fine for dropping on disused bus
Now it can be your understanding that Hackney Carriages, WAV or Saloon, can stop on Bus Stops to load or unload passengers, but they can't wait.

PH definitely can't, ever.

The same SI (elsewhere within it) allows Busses, but not Coaches, to stop on Taxi Ranks to load or unload passengers, but they can't wait.
Author:  StuartW [ Wed Oct 19, 2022 2:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stoke PHD slams spycar fine for dropping on disused bus
For what it's worth, my point about it statistically most likely to be a PHV rather than saloon HC is because generally cities with saloon HCs tend to be vastly outnumbered by saloon PHVs.

And in fact Stoke is particularly skewed in that regard.

The latest DfT stats show 68 WAV HCs, and 101 'other' HCs, thus presumably saloons. By contrast there are 1,075 'other' PHVs, and 50 WAV PHVs.

So looks like Stoke's comparing 101 saloon HCs with 1,075 saloon PHVs, so my money would be on the chap dropping on the bus stop being PH :-o
Author:  grandad [ Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stoke PHD slams spycar fine for dropping on disused bus
Chris the Fish wrote:
Now it can be your understanding that Hackney Carriages, WAV or Saloon, can stop on Bus Stops to load or unload passengers, but they can't wait.

PH definitely can't, ever.

The same SI (elsewhere within it) allows Busses, but not Coaches, to stop on Taxi Ranks to load or unload passengers, but they can't wait.
As I said in my post. We were working on a demand responsive transport contract, replacing a bus, and the passengers would always be ready at the pick up and we only ever stopped for as long as it took for the passengers to eithe get in or out of the car. We had been doing the contract for over 2 years when this incident happened and as stated, it was in a Hackney.
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