Taxi Driver Online

Well this is interesting - do local authorities have the power to regulate out of area fares? In particular, does this mean that drivers can't quote more than clock (including the £5 premium) for a drop across the border to Liverpool?

I mean, the default answer to the trade's complaint here is that normally they could charge what they want anyway for a drop in Liverpool because it's cross-border...


Wirral black cab fares to become Merseyside's highest with new Liverpool charge

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/li ... e-28164144

Taxi drivers said they'd been hit by recent increases in costs as well as the need to make a living

Wirral taxi tariffs are set to become the highest in Merseyside with a new charge brought in for people dropped off in Liverpool.

The new tariffs are being brought in as hackney carriage drivers represented by Unite the Union said costs for insurance and tyres had dramatically increased as well as the need to earn a living as food prices increase. This was approved by a Wirral Council regulatory and general purposes committee but is subject to public consultation over 14 days.

The current day rate is £3.60 for the first 300 yards and 20p for every 207 yards. This will change to £3.60 for the same distance but 20p every 175 yards after that.

This means it will cost 40p more to travel one mile and £3.60 more to go ten miles. Rates will also increase by 7% to go one mile at night and 20% more to go ten miles.

However on bank holidays it will actually be cheaper to go five miles or more but on Christmas Day and the New Year, it will cost £9.30 and £47.70 to go one mile and ten miles respectively.

The new fares will be the highest in the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority, Ellesmere Port, and Neston. During the day, it costs someone £5 to go one mile in Liverpool, £4.70 in Sefton, £4.30 in St Helens, £4.80 in Knowsley, and £4.60 in Ellesmere Port and Neston.

It will cost £5.40 to go one mile on the Wirral with a new £5 charge being added to any fare dropping off in Liverpool plus the fees to return through the tunnel.

Gary Gregory, representing around 85 drivers for Unite, said: "In a perfect world, you wouldn't put the fares up," adding: "We've been hit recently with a massive increase in insurance. For some reason motor insurance has gone up 30% but public hire has gone up by 45%." He also pointed to increasing food prices.

Explaining the new Liverpool charge, he said: "If the traffic's bad, it can take an hour to get back. We can't work in Liverpool, we can't pick anybody else up so that's been factored in to pay for that lost time."

He added: "There has to be something because the fares are non-economical, they're not viable to do. You get £16 for the fare, you take £4 for the tunnel leaves you £12 and you're working for an hour and a half. That's not even minimum wage."

He said traffic congestion was an issue along the Strand, adding: "When Everton open that stadium, it's going to be a no-go area. You can't expect the taxi driver to sit for two hours waiting to get back to where you can pick up legally and not be compensated."

Councillors also removed a limit on the number of Hackney Carriage licenses and moved forward with plans to give Sue Higginson OBE who recently retired as Principle of the Wirral Met College the borough's highest honour, the Freedom of the Borough.

Councillors also removed a limit on the number of Hackney Carriage licenses and moved forward with plans to give Sue Higginson OBE who recently retired as Principle of the Wirral Met College the borough's highest honour, the Freedom of the Borough.

Throwaway line there about removal of the HC quota?

But good to know the former *principle* of the college has been honoured with the freedom of the borough

I wonder if they teach English there - maybe someone would know that the correct word is 'principal'

Anyway, had a look at an old tariff card, and it seems Wirral regulates out-of-area fares up to 4 miles past the border


That doesn't seem consistent with the relevant provisions of the 1976 Act, which refer to fares 'within the district' (regulated fares - section 65) and 'outside the district' (in respect of agreeing the fare in advance or otherwise - section 66).

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1976/57/section/65

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1976/57/section/66

I don't believe they do, apart from maybe allowing toll charges from outside of the local area.

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IDFIMH

I remember a time when that was the only thing that would have been discussed.

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IDFIMH

Apart from the legality of the £5 charge for cross-border runs to Liverpool, not surprised that drivers questioning it here. And, as I said above, under the default scenario elsewhere the drivers should be able to name their price for a run across the border to Liverpool anyway? And, as is stated below, what about runs to other cross-border destinations?

And, if I'm reading this correctly, the proposed T1 running mile is £5.40?

Actually, that's patent nonsense and doesn't even require much in the way of number crunching - see my comment below.


Wirral taxi fare plans to be reviewed following complaints

https://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/2407 ... omplaints/

PROPOSALS for Wirral to have the highest taxi fares in the Liverpool City Region are to be reconsidered amid opposition from drivers.

Wirral Council's regulatory committee approved an increase in taxi tariffs in the borough following representations made by Hackney Carriage drivers and Unite the Union in November.

This would lead to an increase in fares as well as a new £5 fee for anyone being dropped off in Liverpool.

The proposals will now be looked at again after drivers and members of the public expressed their concern.

The current day rate is £3.60 for the first 300 yards and 20p for every 207 yards but this would change to an additional 20p every 175 yards – effectively £5.40 per mile.

This would mean it will cost 40p more to travel a single mile and £3.60 more to go 10 miles. However on bank holidays it would actually be cheaper to go five miles or more but on Christmas Day and the New Year, it would cost £9.30 and £47.70 to go one mile and 10 miles respectively.

The new fares would be the highest in the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority, Ellesmere Port, and Neston. During the day, it costs someone £5 to go one mile in Liverpool, £4.70 in Sefton, £4.30 in St Helens, £4.80 in Knowsley, and £4.60 in Ellesmere Port and Neston.

According to documents released ahead of the committee meeting again on January 31, one objector said: “We are currently losing customers to private hire companies. Uber, Alpha and more are cheaper.

"The £5 charge discriminates (against) people who work or live in Liverpool, not to mention those who go there for the nightlife.”

Another said: "I am a Hackney driver on the Wirral for over 40 years and would like to see an amendment to the fare increase, the suggested £5.00 surcharge to Liverpool should be scrapped. Liverpool city centre is nearer to Birkenhead or Wallasey town centres than Ellesmere Port, Chester, even Eastham, Heswall, West Kirby, Bromborough, and you don’t get jobs back to town from those destinations."

One driver said: “Firstly, I don’t agree with the fare increase at all during the current economic climate.

"Customers are finding it hard to make ends meet and to add a further burden by increasing taxi fares I feel is unacceptable. The current fair table is more than adequate. Secondly as a licensed taxi owner/driver I find it unacceptable to charge an extra £5.00 just for going to Liverpool.”

They said there was no recommendation on when the £5 charge should be applied, adding: "Some drivers would be more than happy to charge anytime however I for one wouldn’t be happy to be charged the £5.00 excess and would never let it happen twice and I’m sure no customer would be happy with it."

Other drivers said they did not feel another price was needed so soon as one was approved in 2022, adding how it could “penalise” wheelchair users and young families.

Another felt it would "kill the Hackney trade" while one objector said they opposed the increase in day fares but did think tariffs at night needed to increase and was in favour of the £5 Liverpool charge.

The increase had been brought in following a request by Unite the Union for changes.

Gary Gregory, representing around 85 drivers for Unite, previously said “in a perfect world” fees wouldn’t increase but cited rises in insurance costs as a contributing factor. adding:

Explaining the new Liverpool charge, he said: “If the traffic’s bad, it can take an hour to get back. We can’t work in Liverpool, we can’t pick anybody else up so that’s been factored in to pay for that lost time.”

He added: “There has to be something because the fares are non-economical, they’re not viable to do. You get £16 for the fare, you take £4 for the tunnel leaves you £12 and you’re working for an hour and a half. That’s not even minimum wage."

That makes it sound like the running mile is £5.40, while of course there's 1,760 yards in a mile, so you don't have to work it out exactly to see that there are just over 10 increments per mile, thus the running mile is little more than £2

Of course, what the journo is saying is that a one-mile run is £5.40, presumably, but he makes it sound like that's the charge for the running mile.


But you don't have to do such a job anyway. And if you do want to do it, then you should be able to name your price?

To be fare (thought I'd misspell 'fair' here, since it's misspelt the other way round in the article ), the whole thing is maybe to do with the Wirral tariff card saying that fares four miles past the boundary are regulated, which would presumably cover runs to Liverpool

Would question the legality of Wirral regulating cross-border runs, though, as per links above from last year's posts

This a clear example of council officials/councillors trying to be clever.

And a Unite rep who couldn't see much further than his nose.

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IDFIMH

Looks like the £5 charge has been dropped

Almost didn't read the rest of it, but some quite interesting comments from councillors, or at least I thought they were interesting...


£5 Liverpool taxi charge scrapped as 'hefty' fare rise goes ahead

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/li ... d-28547798

The current rise was described as something that "works for the public and gives taxi drivers an earning they deserve."

A £5 Liverpool drop off charge has been scrapped for Wirral hackney carriages but maximum fares will rise.

The fee was due to be brought in this year following approval by Wirral Council's regulatory and general purposes committee in November 2023 along with a series of fare rises. It had been put forward by Unite the Union on behalf of the taxi drivers it represents arguing the raise was needed so taxi drivers could continue making a living.

However nine objections had been received over the proposals forcing the council to reconsider including from taxi drivers concerned it 'would 'kill the Hackney trade." At a committee meeting on January 31, councillors decided to drop the £5 charge and increase some maximum fares from February 21 though to a lesser extent than previously proposed.

The current day rate is £3.60 for the first 300 yards and 20p for every 207 yards and this will stay exactly the same going forward. However the night tariff will now be £3.80 for the first 350 yards instead of the first 300 as previously proposed and will go up 25p for every 165 yards after that.

For public and bank holidays, it will be £4.50 for the first 350 yards instead of the first 300 going up 25p for every 165 yards. For Christmas and New Year, this will be £5.70 for the first 880 yards instead of the first 300 and will go up by 40p every 165 yards, a 21% increase over two miles according to councillors.

While the £5 Liverpool drop off charge has now been scrapped, people will still have to pay the tunnel toll there and back from Liverpool.

Cllr Stephen Bennett who put forward the proposal pointed out people can get the bus for £2 or the train for roughly £3 on the Wirral, adding: "It still gives them a rise but we believe it comes in line with the objections as well so we're trying to do both that works for the public and gives taxi drivers an earning they deserve."

Speaking in favour of the policy, Cllr Tom Laing said: "This is still a fairly hefty increase that reflects the cost of living crisis and the pressures taxi drivers are facing, while also reflecting the struggles many customers are also facing."

He argued if the original rise had been implemented it would reinforce a narrative even though it was a maximum rate, adding: "Everyone will say taxis have gone up, these are unaffordable, let's just get the bus."

The rise was voted through by Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrat councillors. The committee's four Green Party councillors voted against the Labour proposal and arguing in favour of Unite's proposal that would have seen a bigger rise and the highest taxi fares across the Liverpool City Region.

Pointing to the objections, Green councillor Christopher Cooke said: "It doesn't strike me as a huge number and I think we have to give some credence to the representative from the Union, who he may not represent even half of members but there were certainly more than nine."

Cllr Ewan Tomeny said the decision was difficult but pointed to the union's arguments "they're often working at less than minimum wage." He said: "It is in our interest to protect and make sure there are taxis available for people who require taking taxis and can't take a bus," adding: "The suggestion was they cannot afford to run their businesses at the current rates."

A tad confusing all this. The *proposal* here seems to be NOT to have the £5 surcharge, while further up the article the *proposal* seemed to be INTRODUCING the £5 surcharge.


Again, the *policy* here seem to be NOT having the £5 surcharge, whereas it kind of reads like the policy was IMPLEMENTING the £5 surcharge.


Twenty years ago I would have maybe thought differently, but when I see stuff like this these day from *Green councillors* in particular, I see it as in fact working against the interests of the trade by hoping it'll make taxis uncompetitive. Troublemakers, essentially.

Maybe I'm being unfair, and they are genuine, but, you know...

But both sides of the argument here basically impressionistic, and lacking nuance and economic rigour.

Who'd have expected that?

Bit of a slog this, particularly the likes of the fare numbers rehash, which I can't really be bothered looking at at all

But some of it is quite interesting, but on the other hand numerous tales of woe which seem to be repeated every so often over the years in various locations.

However, no doubt there's a lot of truth in it, but on the other hand there will inevitably be the exaggeration and quoting worst-case scenarios rather than something more representative of the bigger picture.

And a lot of the usual contradictions - on the one hand, people can't afford taxis. On the other, some drivers complaining that the fare rise isn't high enough

And you'd think that if they're going to blur out the HC's number plate in the photo, they'd also blur the HC plate number - it's clearly readable, at least in the high-res version of the photo

https://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/resources/images/17725772


What Wirral taxi drivers really think of council’s latest fares


Image: Wirral Globe

WIRRAL'S cab drivers believe their trade is dying as they struggle to make ends meet on a day to day basis.

On January 31, Wirral Council made a number of changes to the rates taxi drivers charge across the borough which will see tariffs at night, on public and bank holidays, and Christmas and New Year go up, but the rates people pay during the day stay the same.

Though some fares will rise, these were less than the proposals brought forward by Unite the Union in November 2023 that wanted to see fares go up across the board and a new £5 drop off charge brought in for Liverpool on top of tunnel fees. A representative for the union said the £5 charge was needed because Wirral hackney carriages can’t pick up outside of the borough and sometimes get caught up in traffic.
However, a number of objections were received, including from some taxi drivers, who argued the rise might kill off the trade as they would have become the highest fares in Merseyside. In light of this, councillors proposed a smaller increase to fares, calling this something “that works for the public and gives taxi drivers an earning they deserve.”

The current day rate is £3.60 for the first 300 yards and 20p for every 207 yards and this will stay exactly the same going forward. However, the night tariff will now be £3.80 for the first 350 yards instead of the first 300 as previously proposed and will go up 25p for every 165 yards after that.

For public and bank holidays, it will be £4.50 for the first 350 yards instead of the first 300 going up 25p for every 165 yards. For Christmas and New Year, this will be £5.70 for the first 880 yards instead of the first 300 and will go up by 40p every 165 yards, a 21% increase over two miles according to councillors.
While the £5 Liverpool drop off charge has now been scrapped, people will still have to pay the tunnel toll for taxis there and back from Liverpool.

Outside the ASDA in central Birkenhead, rows of taxis can be seen waiting to pick people up which drivers said is one of the few places left in the town which sees any business come in. Several drivers who spoke to the Local Democracy Reporting Service (LDRS), some who said they worked for half the minimum wage, argued a rise was needed to help keep the service going.

Les Powell has been a taxi driver for 20 years, but said the current situation was “diabolical”, with him often going home with £40 at the end of the day after working a nine hour shift. He said: “Everyone has pulled out of the town. Iceland, Beatties, Bonmarche, TJ Hughes.

“If Asda shuts down tomorrow, that is us finished. That is why we’re all waiting up here but if customers haven’t got the money, they haven’t got the money.”

He said it often takes him half an hour to get a job, while his insurance has gone up, he has to pay £1,500 getting his vehicle an MOT and £160 on medical assessments. The last time he renewed his insurance it cost £1,600 but he expects this to go up again.

Mr Powell added: “We shouldn’t be having to roll up to Asda. The town centre is decimated. I am doing part time now because I get £200 a week pension and I cannot live on that. I am thinking I am might as well get out. I am 70 and I have been working all my life and it’s hard to just stop.”

William Devine, a taxi driver for 37 years, said he works 60 hours a week but finds costs can sometimes be more than earnings, adding: “It just can’t carry on.”

He added: “Everything in the world has gone up and we have had no rises. They are seriously out of touch. I know people can’t afford it but when I first started it was a luxury to get a taxi.

“It wasn’t really for the day drivers. The day drivers are getting nothing, not even a tuppence. The council are out of touch. No one wants to put anything up but then everything else goes up.”

He said: “I think Uber isn’t good for us, the impact is massive and they get a lot of students. We are stuck between a rock and a hard place. That is where we are. I don’t want to put the customer out of pocket.

“It was busy during the pandemic. We did a lot of NHS work. It was a lot cheaper but we endured our way through it. You put yourself out there and it was thankless. A lot of people were working from home and I wish I could have worked from home.”

Chris Clarke, who has worked in the trade for 38 years, said hackney carriages in cities like Liverpool were faring better but the situation on the Wirral “is just a joke,” adding: “It used to be a good job. I know it’s slated now but it was a good paying job.”

He said: “There are drivers out there who are really really struggling,” adding: “Our main thing is we do not get included when they decide to put this through. Anyone who looked at the fares would have realised it was a pay cut. It’s been the same for the last 20 years.”

Despite developments brought forward by Wirral Council such as its new offices in the town centre and footfall reportedly increasing in the second half of 2022, many felt the town is on the decline.

Mr Clarke said: “I’m on the way out now and enough is enough. The way the town is going, there’s nothing here. They are doing nothing to regenerate it. It’s just such a shame, a joke. There are no pubs, there’s no clubs, there’s nothing.

“The Liverpool lads are struggling. The trade is struggling. We are all in the same boat but to do what the council has done in the past 20 years is just a joke.”

Dave Scott said more needed to be done to bring trade back into the town centre, adding: “It’s a waste of time. All they do is put the night rates up and then there is no work around here.

“The only way anything is going to happen is if they start putting things up. New restaurants and entertainment instead of those things here (referring to the council’s new offices.) The docks they have just built those brand new flats, why not just put a restaurant down there?”

A spokesperson for Wirral Council said: “A proposal which had been received from Unite the Union for increases to Hackney Carriage Fares was considered by the Regulatory and General Purposes Committee in November 2023. The proposal was approved subject to any objections being received. Following receipt of objections to the proposal the Committee were obliged to review the decision. The objections were reported to members of the committee at the meeting held on January 31.

“The increase proposed would have made Hackney Carriage Fares in Wirral one of the highest in the Merseyside area. During the recent meeting of the Regulatory and General Purposes Committee a lower increase in Hackney Carriage Fares was put forward by a member of the committee and agreed by a majority of councillors.”

Someone in the comments saying that when they try to get an HC they won't accept cards. So he now just uses Uber


That's what I mean about possible exaggeration. I mean, he makes it sound like half an hour for a job is a worst-case scenario.

Maybe he should come up here - even late on Saturdays/early Sunday waiting an hour for a job is unexceptional. At least at this time of year.

But that's what I don't really get. Even ignoring my own experiences, I keep reading about the trade being on its knees in some places, while elsewhere it's impossible to get a taxi

I suspect it's possibly a day/night thing and post-Covid. I certainly don't work the really late nights very often these days, or at least get away home before the worst of the pishheads are thrown out of the pubs and clubs

Most of the drivers giving negative opinions above have been in the trade for 20/30 years.

It does beg the question as to why, if it's been so bad.

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IDFIMH

Sussex, I could write a book on that sort of stuff, but a few suggestions.

For a start, these sound like mainly independent HCDs, thus wholly, or at least predominantly dependent on street hires.

But, of course, there's been a shift from street hires to pre-booking over the years, particularly app-booking. Then, of course, because a lot of them are old and dinosaurs, they won't entertain card payments at all. So it's a double whammy in terms of obtaining work.

Then they're at the sort of age when the thought of doing anything else is maybe too much of a challenge, particularly if they've done nothing else for a couple of decades or more. (That's very like me - if I could live my life again, I'd go nowhere near the trade, but now can't really see a way out. On the one hand it's a curse, on the other it's a huge comfort zone.)

Then, of course, they're maybe less inclined to work nights at that age, when they could make a bit of dosh, while there are few younger drivers coming through willing to work nights, hence the late-night shortages.

And, of course, like me again I suspect Covid was a bit of a game-changer, even for drivers who didn't disappear to do other jobs. So some shifted to days during Covid (assuming they were working at all), and can't/won't go back to nights. I'm certainly a bit like that. And there are several additional personal and local reasons why I rarely wait till chucking out times these days, but maybe better not to go into them on here

I suppose I was a little bit mean, as it's not really for me to tell anyone what they should and shouldn't do in respect of staying in the trade. The bit that miffs me is people bellyaching to the press.

But drivers need to adapt, they need to offer card machines, and they need to card the better punters. Maybe they should also consider joining a circuit, or an app that just charges if and when you do work for them.

Just sitting and moaning helps no one, and merely sucks the life out of the trade.

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IDFIMH