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Suspected illegal PH stopped on M6 preston
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Author:  edders23 [ Fri Dec 29, 2023 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Suspected illegal PH stopped on M6 preston
usual stuff about fake licensed vehicles for the time of year otherwise hardly worth a read

https://www.lep.co.uk/news/crime/car-thought-to-be-operating-as-a-fake-taxi-caughton-the-m6-in-lancashire-4458321

Lancashire Road Police stopped a BMW on the M6 in Preston on Boxing Day night (Tuesday, December 26) as they suspected it was operating as an illegal taxi.

At 7:18pm, the Lancashie Road Police X/Twitter account said: "Driver gave false details, but couldn't out smart biometrics device revealing his identity. Driver had no licence and was not insured. Vehicle seized and driver reported."
Image

This BMW, suspected to be operating as an illegal taxi. was caught on the M6 near Preston.
What to do if you think you have seen a fake taxi?

Taxis and private hire vehicles (also called minicabs) must have a licence from the local council so if you think you know of a fake taxi driver/operator, contact the local council where you saw them.

Way to check if a vehicle is licensed correctly

A private hire vehicle (PHVs/minicabs), which can only be pre-booked:

-Must display a special licence plate on the front or rear of the vehicle OR a special disc on the windscreen or rear window

-*Some PHVs are exempt, such as executive hire vehicles.

Taxis, which can be prebooked anywhere but also hailed in the street or hired at a rank in the area they’re licensed by.

-Have a plate on the back showing their taxi licence number and the area they’re licensed by.

-Usually have a ‘TAXI’ roof sign.
Author:  StuartW [ Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspected illegal PH stopped on M6 preston
'Hardly worth a read' indeed, Edders. On the other hand, your thread title does display your prejudice, in fact a bias a lot worse than the journalists you spend a lot of time denigrating. (As I do as well, obviously, but do try to rationalise what I'm saying.)

I mean, how did you conclude it was a suspected illegal *PH*?

At least when the press use the term 'taxi' in such circumstances it's presumably born of ignorance rather than prejudice.

In fact, maybe the term illegal 'taxi' would be appropriate here. I mean, the first below is the actual headline in the report, while the second two are maybe more technically corrrect alternatives. But the second two are clunky and clumsy, and maybe don't convey things accurately to the average reader, if perhaps more accurate for anoraks:


Car thought to be operating as a fake taxi caught on the M6 in Lancashire


Car thought to be operating as a fake taxi (hackney carriage) or private hire vehicle caught on the M6 in Lancashire


Car thought to be operating as a fake licensed hire and reward vehicle caught on the M6 in Lancashire
Author:  StuartW [ Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspected illegal PH stopped on M6 preston
In fact, from a journalistic perspective what's maybe more interesting is the headline and strapline in the online report - what's the point of the strapline? It's more or less the headline rearranged rather than conveying any new or different information :lol:

And, oddly, there's slightly less information in the strapline than in the headline - 'M6' has been replaced simply by 'road' :-s

But at least the word 'fake' has been replaced by 'illegal' :D


Car thought to be operating as a fake taxi caught on the M6 in Lancashire

A car thought to be operating as an illegal taxi has been caught on the road in Lancashire.
Author:  edders23 [ Sat Dec 30, 2023 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspected illegal PH stopped on M6 preston
so Stuart answer me this

1) did the vehicle have a toplight ?
2) assuming it was working the preston area do preston have saloon hackneys ?
3) did the vehicle have a meter ?
4) would you have read it if I used the word taxi instead of PH ?
5) if any other poster than me had put this up would you have attacked the posting in the same way ?
Author:  StuartW [ Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspected illegal PH stopped on M6 preston
Some fair points, Edders but, for a start, you occasionally use the phrase 'pirate hire' for no obvious reason, which to my mind displays at least a degree of unwarranted prejudice. And let's not mention that time you referred to 'lower tier' drivers :lol:

But that's the context in which I read your thread title, and to that extent saw it as an excuse for having a gratuitous go at the private hire side :-o

Anyway, as regards the technicalities, the point is surely that we don't really know much about the circumstances and evidence, thus saying it was about an 'illegal HC' would be unwarranted, thus your 'illegal PH' is similarly being too presumptuous. To that extent the report was probably right to use the term 'taxi' in the generic, everyday sense. Personally, I'd have used something like this as the thread title...

Suspected illegal 'taxi' stopped on M6 near Preston

...the 'scare quotes' round 'taxi' of course implying that it's maybe not wholly accurate, but it's a slightly vague term because we don't know precisely what it is.

And, I mean, the fake drivers that we often read about plying for hire around nightclubs and city centres normally don't have a rooflight nor meter, but would it be accurate to call them 'illegal PH'? And would that differ if the legitimate HCs were purpose built or saloons? In my opinion, no. If anything they'd be a fake/illegal *HC*, but again maybe 'taxi' is more appropriate because it's all a bit unclear.

And supposing you're right - and on balance I'd guess the vehicle in the article was doing some kind of pre-booked work - but the suspect had only been caught when taking a job off the street. Would that mean he'd suddenly changed from being an 'illegal PH' to an 'illegal HC'?

Again, that's debatable either way, but again without the full details it's probably better not to be to specific, in my opinion at least [-(

As for your final point, I might manage to summon up a bit of effort over the weekend. I'll be out for a few hours tonight, and a couple of hours after midnight Sunday, but apart from that I'll have plenty spare time :lol:

(Last Saturday I waited well over two hours (straddling midnight) for a local run, and can't really see it being much better tonight. Hogmanay is dead as a dodo here (for street cars like me in particular), and I normally don't even go out till around midnight, and it's all done and dusted by about 2am :? )
Author:  StuartW [ Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspected illegal PH stopped on M6 preston
And, for what it's worth, the link below is to the tweet that the press report was based on, so it's quite brief, and not a lot of information.

But something like that I'd normally think that he was caught plying for hire. However, since he was on the M6, then presumably he wasn't really plying for hire there :lol: , but of course maybe they pursued him to there and did the stop, and found he had no licence and no insurance, and got the towtruck in :-o

(I'm guessing the driver had no DVLA licence and no insurance at all rather than just the hire and reward stuff, but again that's just conjecture and the information in the tweet isn't specific enough.)

But the phrase used by traffic police in the tweet is stopped because "suspected to be operating as an illegal taxi", so who knows how the suspicions were raised?

https://twitter.com/LancsRoadPolice/sta ... 1702084873
Author:  edders23 [ Sun Dec 31, 2023 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspected illegal PH stopped on M6 preston
Quote:
you occasionally use the phrase 'pirate hire' for no obvious reason


When i ran my business we used to lose up to a dozen fares a week pinched by PH operators mainly; but occasionally Hackney often chancing their arm by driving out to hotels where functions took place and approaching anyone emerging claiming that they had been sent instead of us. Peterborough city hospital was another where we regularly turned up only to find out our booked passengers were in a PH car that had approached them outside the hospital claiming they had been sent by us instead of one of our own cars.

I even once had a really cheecky one that phoned me up after snatching our prepaid booked passengers from the Hotpoint club (Peterborough) asking where he can come to collect the money :roll: I told him in no uncertain terms that our vehicle was out there and was now coming back empty and that he wasn't getting a penny. Unfortunately he dumped the passengers in the middle of town instead of home and even though I got them picked up and taken home they never used us again.

Piracy is a common problem in the taxi trade hence my use of that term
Author:  roythebus [ Sun Dec 31, 2023 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspected illegal PH stopped on M6 preston
I suspect the police computer/ANPR clocked a "ping" or a "yabadabadoo" that they do when it spots a number with no insurance?
Author:  StuartW [ Sun Dec 31, 2023 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspected illegal PH stopped on M6 preston
Edders wrote:
I even once had a really cheecky one that phoned me up after snatching our prepaid booked passengers from the Hotpoint club...

Is he one of those in the trade involved in money laundering? :lol:

But, yes, there are a lot in the trade who will Hoover up other people's jobs in that way :lol: :lol:

In a shock about turn in the use of terminology, Edders wrote:
Piracy is a common problem in the taxi trade hence my use of that term.

So now you're using the term 'taxi' generically? :shock:

Which kind of underlines what I was saying. There's lots of wrongdoing in both sides, which is why I thought your assumption in the thread title that the stopped car was an illegal *PH* displayed a measure of prejudice, and an unwarranted attempt to smear one side of the industry :-o

Maybe you don't use the term as often as I thought (and it's perhaps warranted if the PHD or operator is acting illegally), but a quick search finds the likes of this last year, in the context of the London black cab drivers' Knowledge of London:

Last year, Edders wrote:
but it has worked well for years London is a BIG village it takes a long time to learn all the ways about and people trust black cabs to be able to do just that if cabbies stopped taking the knowledge people might decide not to use them as there is no advantage over pirate hire or ufail
Author:  StuartW [ Sun Dec 31, 2023 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspected illegal PH stopped on M6 preston
Roy wrote:
I suspect the police computer/ANPR clocked a "ping" or a "yabadabadoo" that they do when it spots a number with no insurance?

Maybe, Roy, but the police tweet reads like the 'operative cause' of the stop was the fact that the vehicle was 'suspected to be operating as an illegal taxi', which I don't think would be pinged via ANPR.

Of course, the tweet might just be badly worded, or maybe it's deliberately misleading to protect their sources, or whatever, but who knows? :?

I mean, if it was genuinely suspected to be doing pre-booked work then that sounds more like something council LOs would pick up on, and thus a motorway stop seems less likely. Or maybe it was spotted plying for hire without a plate, and police gave chase, or whatever. But there's simply not enough information to conclude much definitely. Which is why in turn I questioned Edders' use of PH in the thread title. Which I wish I hadn't done now :lol: :-o
Author:  StuartW [ Sun Dec 31, 2023 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspected illegal PH stopped on M6 preston
But in case anyone can't access the tweet (or 'post on X', as we're supposed to say these days :roll: ), this is it in its entirety:

Lancs Road Police wrote:
BMW stopped by RPU Sgt #H24 on the M6 at Preston as suspected to be operating as an illegal taxi. Driver gave false details, but couldn't out smart biometrics device revealing his identity. Driver had no licence and was not insured. Vehicle seized and driver reported. #T4RPU
Author:  Sussex [ Sun Dec 31, 2023 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspected illegal PH stopped on M6 preston
I suspect the vehicle has been spotted several times picking up at an airport, and the powers that be put 2 and 2 together and got 4.

Several Police Forces have online complaint forms, mainly for boy racers and other anti-social driving, but they can be used for reporting unlicensed taxi/PH vehicles.
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