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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2024 2:14 pm 
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Well this is a tad confusing. I read this quickly and thought Mr David Masih was the council's LO, and was arguing against rooflights on PHVs.

But on closer reading it looks like he's some sort of PH trade rep :-o

But he seems to be the one arguing against rooflights on PHVs, while the council's LO is arguing in favour of them.

Odd :?

But in view of the photo that Bedford Today has used to illustrate the piece, it's maybe no wonder the article is a tad confusing :lol:

I thought it was maybe some kind of trade vehicle with a rooflight, but on closer inspection the white bit on the roof actually seems to be part of the wall...

Even odder :?


Fears raised that rules for roof signs on Bedford's private hire vehicles 'could cause confrontations'

https://www.bedfordtoday.co.uk/news/pol ... ns-4608528

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Bedford Borough Council’s roof sign requirements for private vehicles could lead to confrontations when minicab drivers refuse to pick up an unbooked passenger.

But a council’s licensing officer said these roof signs are a “community safety issue”.

Mr David Masih attended the council’s General Licensing Committee (April 25) to speak about roof signs on behalf of the borough’s private hire trade.

“The policy from the Department for Transport has been updated,” he said.

He drew the committee’s attention to the updated section which states: “Licensing authorities should not permit roof signs of any kind on private hire vehicles.

“Regardless of the wording required on such a sign it is likely to increase awareness of the vehicle and the likelihood of being mistaken for a taxi.

“This increases the success of those illegally standing or plying for hire and may lead to confrontation when private hire vehicle drivers refuse a request for a journey that has not been prebooked.”

Mr Masih said: “Having an illuminated sign on taxis and prohibiting them from private hire vehicles will provide a simple way for the public to differentiate between the two services.

“We encourage all licensing authorities to promote the difference [between them].

“We believe that the safety benefits that were initially envisaged when implementing the roof signs have been eroded over the years,” he said.

He added that improvements in technology, including sending the driver’s picture to the user, have improved safety, and that a neighbouring council had already removed the need for roof signs on private hire vehicles.

“It seems roof signs are more of a costly hindrance and of almost no benefit to the ride users,” he said.

Gillian Anderson, manager for service application, said Mr Masih was correct that the guidance had changed.

“However, along with a lot of other licensing officers across the country, my view remains that the roof signs are a community safety issue and they do help vehicles be identified,” she said.

“[They] enable members of the public to identify a private hire vehicle if they wish to make a complaint.

“They are clearly defined; the yellow signs are for Hackney carriages and the green signs are for private hire,” she said.

Councillor officers will look into Mr Masih’s request for the need for roof signs for private hire vehicles, and this will be debated by the committee at a later date.

Taxi drivers can carry out pre-booked journeys, wait on taxi ranks for a fare, or be ‘flagged down’ by a fare on the street.

Private hire drivers can only carry out pre-booked journeys, arranged in advance.


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2024 2:15 pm 
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Gillian Anderson, manager for service application wrote:
“[They] enable members of the public to identify a private hire vehicle if they wish to make a complaint.

“They are clearly defined; the yellow signs are for Hackney carriages and the green signs are for private hire,” she said.

On the other hand, there are the arguments made by the trade rep...

Not to mention that the hotchpotch of policies and practices nationally just confuse it all, and then there's the cross-border stuff. And while green PHV signs and yellow HCs signs are clearly distinguisable, from the public's perspective the fact they're both signs is not distinguishable in terms of the HC/PHV binary...

As opposed to the trade rep's points, the LO's arguments seem more from people sitting behind a desk than in the streets late at night.

Anyway, spent ages earlier trying to find some suitable photos that maybe showed that the PHV roofsigns helped identify the car if the public 'wished to make a complaint', but this is the best I could find - all the operator websites are those awful generic things full of stuff about apps and cheesy stock photos of drivers and passengers laughing and smiling, and absolutely no sign of 60-something drivers with big bellies and tracky bottoms, nor drunk/drugged up passengers shouting and swearing, and puking up :-o

Nor, more importantly, are there any photos of the actual cars. These are the best I could find (elsewhere). But no evidence as regards what's actually on the rooflight (third photo too big for the forum):


Image

Image

https://assets.centralindex.com/Q/48/04 ... 7df2de.jpg


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2024 2:21 pm 
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Found this spec on the council's website, though (page 3) - reads like the sign contains all the operator details and stuff that would normally be on a plate :-o

Not even sure if PHVs have a plate - maybe they just use the rooflights instead...

So I can see why the council thinks they should be retained for ID purposes...on the other hand :roll:

https://www.bedford.gov.uk/media/5647/download?inline


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2024 2:29 pm 
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Quote:
Gillian Anderson, manager for service application


so Scully has had enough of the x files and moved to a new career in Bedfordshire then :lol:


seriously though this is more evidence for the need for national standards.

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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2024 7:47 pm 
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Quote:
But a council’s licensing officer said these roof signs are a “community safety issue”.

Indeed. =D>

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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2024 7:51 pm 
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Not sure if roof lights are mandatory, which isn't the case in many areas.

If they are not mandatory, then just don't have one.

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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2024 1:07 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
If they are not mandatory, then just don't have one.

As I said earlier, it may be that the PHV rooflights are used in Bedford instead of plates, so to that extent it's not an option there. But I'm not entirely sure, and can't be bothered looking into it.


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2024 6:38 pm 
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from bedfordshires rules on private hire vehicles

Quote:
2.8.6 A Private Hire Vehicle must be fitted with a roof sign which shall be of a design approved in
writing by Bedford Borough Council and shall comply with the following specifications as set
out in sub-paragraphs below:

2.8.7 The dimension of the roof sign shall be a minimum of 600mm in length and a maximum of
620mm in length. The depth of the sign shall be a minimum of 140mm and a maximum of
160mm. The minimum height of the sign shall be 160mm and the maximum height
180mm.

2.8.8 The roof sign shall comprise a green background to the front, top and sides with black
lettering only. The rear of the sign shall be black in colour showing red lettering only


no mention of license details being applied in the first 3 paras but read on and

Quote:
2.8.9 Front Elevation
The front elevation of the sign shall include in descending order the operator’s trading
name and telephone number and the words “ADVANCE BOOKINGS ONLY”. The operator’s
trading name and telephone number must be in letters and numbers respectively, the
height and width of each letter or number must not exceed 40mm; followed by the
wording “ADVANCE BOOKINGS ONLY” which must be in letters of not less than 25mm in
height and width.

2.8.10 Side Elevations
The word “PLATE” and Licence number must be displayed on the left and right side
elevations of the roof sign. The word “PLATE” must be in letters not less than 17mm in
height and the Licence number must be in letters not less than 28mm in height and width.

2.8.11 Rear Elevation
The rear elevation of the roof sign shall include the following in descending order:
The words “private hire vehicle” in letters not less than 28mm in height and width followed
by the words “LICENSED BY BEDFORD BOROUGH COUNCIL TO CARRY X PASSENGERS”. The
letters must be a minimum of 17mm both in height and width. “X” must be substituted by
the specified number of persons to be carried as stated in the Private Hire Vehicle Licence.

2.8.12 The word “PLATE” must be displayed on the right side of the roof sign when viewed from the
rear of the vehicle and must be in lettering of not less than 20mm in height and width. The
Licence number must be in numbers not less than 30mm in height and width.

2.8.13 The registration number displayed on the vehicle must be displayed at the rear of the roof
sign and be preceded by “REG NO.” and must be in letters and numbers not less than 20mm
nor greater than 25mm in height andwidth.

2.8.14 Nothing other than words and figures specified in these conditions shall appear or be
displayed on the roof sign.

2.8.15 The letters and figures displayed on the roof sign must be maintained in a legible condition
at all times.

2.8.16 The roof sign must be displayed on the roof of the vehicle at all times whilst the vehicle is
licensed by Bedford Borough Council as a Private Hire Vehicle. If the Private Hire Vehicle
licence is suspended or revoked for any reason the licensee shall remove the roof sign
forthwith.

2.8.17 A private hire vehicle must display Council-approved signage on both front doors of the
vehicle stating that the vehicle is only able to undertake pre-booked journeys. Any private
hire vehicle not meeting the requirements of this section will be automatically suspended
until such time as the requirements are met and the suspension has been removed by a
licensing officer.
Bedford Borough Council


by jimminy what a complicated way to do things a mogo or equivalent would be simpler surely ?

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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2024 1:33 pm 
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Well done for editing your post, Edders - almost replied to you when I noticed last night that you'd *selectively* quoted from the council's rules, but you've obviously had another look. Or someone else has pointed out your erro =D> :wink:

But if you'd simply had a quick look at the much shorter document I posted earlier then it would have all been obvious from the start :idea:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2024 5:28 pm 
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A few weeks ago, StuartW wrote:
Well done for editing your post, Edders - almost replied to you when I noticed last night that you'd *selectively* quoted from the council's rules, but you've obviously had another look. Or someone else has pointed out your erro =D> :wink:

It must have been this thread about the rooflights I was thinking about 8-[

But you missed a trick, Edders, as regards the irony of me misspelling 'error' :lol: :oops:

Although my excuse would have been that I was being deliberately ironic :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2024 6:58 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
Well done for editing your post, Edders - almost replied to you when I noticed last night that you'd *selectively* quoted from the council's rules, but you've obviously had another look. Or someone else has pointed out your erro =D> :wink:

But if you'd simply had a quick look at the much shorter document I posted earlier then it would have all been obvious from the start :idea:



I find it easier to post in "blocks" so submitted the post and then added the rest to it :wink: and the misprint was clearly a deliberate typo tp try and catch me out :roll:

so what do you reckon Stuart 3-1 Germany ?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:39 pm 
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Quote:
so what do you reckon Stuart 3-1 Germany ?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2024 6:54 pm 
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Quote:
so what do you reckon Stuart 3-1 Germany ?

I'll resist the temptation to say that I wasn't going to be taking on Germany single-handedly, and certainly wouldn't be beating them 3-1.

But I assumed Edders was suggesting Germany would score three goals to Scotland's one...

Haven't the foggiest, to be honest. If only because I couldn't even name one Scotland player, never mind the Germans 8-[

Thought, however, that I vaguely recalled Scotland playing West Germany in a World Cup in the days of Franz Beckenbauer and Gerd Muller, but don't think that actually happened - I'm maybe thinking of when Scotland played in West Germany in the 1974 World Cup, against Brazil, Yugoslavia and Zaire. When I'd been 10.

Well remember the 1978 World Cup in Argentina, though - Ally's Army, the elation of the Archie Gemmill goal against Holland, and then deflation when Johnny Rep scored from 30 yards :-o

But we almost beat the eventual runners-up. Which was probably peak Scotland as far as the fitba is concerned :?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_BNAzUA3zk


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