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Derby PHDs may quit over new 5-year-old 'on' rule
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Author:  StuartW [ Sat Mar 29, 2025 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Derby PHDs may quit over new 5-year-old 'on' rule
Usual round the houses stuff and endless waffle.

I mean, what I want to know about stuff like this is:

- is there are current 'on' age rule that's been reduced to five years?

- looks like the current 'off' age is 15 :-o

- is that being changed, or will it remain the same?

None of that is entirely clear from this. And, to that extent, the essence of what it's all about and is discernible from the article is encapsulated by my thread title [-(


Fears Derby cabbies may quit the job due to 'very strict' new rule

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/d ... b-10060554

Derby City Council under fire over new taxi licensing policy

Taxi drivers in Derby fear they could go out of business should "ridiculous" rule changes go ahead next week. Derby City Council has been urged to urgently rethink its new taxi licensing rules in the city which will require cabs to be much newer than the current rules dictate.

The GMB Union, representing hundreds of Derby private hire taxi drivers, says a new policy is set to come into force which will “slash the licensable age of taxi vehicles from fifteen years to just five”. The union claims the change “threatens the licences of hundreds of drivers using vehicles made before 2021” and could ruin the taxi trade in Derby.

The council says the new age limit is “to ensure vehicles are in good condition and more likely to meet current safety and emissions standards”. The authority claims most drivers “will be unaffected by the change” but this is disputed by cab drivers and the GMB union.

A report by the city council says from April 1 a taxi vehicle should be five years old or less when it is being licenced by the council for the first time.

This means existing licensed vehicles, no more than 15 years old, are still OK to be used for taxi hire as they have been previously licensed by the local authority.

But worried drivers say the changes will have a “big impact” on them because taxi vehicles may need replacing should there be an accident or when cars deteriorate over time. If this is the case then drivers will need to have a new vehicle licensed which is five years old or less – potentially costing them thousands.

They claim the cost of running a newer vehicle could cost them around £15,000 which would put them out of business - or they will find another council to be licensed with.

Maddy Ahmed, who runs Derby cab firm PJ Cars, called the new rules “very strict” and “ridiculous”. He said: “The age limit for vehicles of less than five years old is too much and very strict. It is going to have a big impact. Some drivers will leave their jobs and go elsewhere.

“Nobody can afford a £15,000-£20,000 car just like that. The running costs and the income drivers get are not going to match up."

Lee Roach, another taxi driver in the city, called the new policy “pointless” and said he was aware of a meeting about the matter between the union and the council later this week.

Craig Thomson, GMB regional organiser, said : “We all want a greener city, but these plans put all the burden on the working people of Derby. Private hire taxis are a central part of peoples' daily lives. These plans could see hundreds of the drivers forced out of work.

“Working people make Derby and we won’t stand by if the voices of our city’s drivers are ignored".

Derby City Council explained the changes and said it was agreed in 2019 by the council's licensing committee. A spokesperson said: “From April 1, Derby private hire vehicles presented for licensing for the first time must be under five years old. This is to ensure vehicles are in good condition and more likely to meet current safety and emissions standards, contributing to public safety, a cleaner environment and a better overall experience for passengers.

“Most current drivers will be unaffected by the change, as vehicles already licensed by the council can continue to be licensed until they are 15 years old. It will remain the case that vehicles above that age will be refused a licence unless approved for use following an exceptional condition vehicle check.

“We value our partnership with private hire drivers and are working with them to provide clarity and guidance on the update to licensing requirements.”
Author:  StuartW [ Sat Mar 29, 2025 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Derby PHDs may quit over new 5-year-old 'on' rule
Quote:
Maddy Ahmed, who runs Derby cab firm PJ Cars, called the new rules “very strict” and “ridiculous”. He said: “The age limit for vehicles of less than five years old is too much and very strict. It is going to have a big impact. Some drivers will leave their jobs and go elsewhere.

Maybe that's alluding to you-know-where, so not really a case of drivers 'leaving their jobs' :?

Derby City Council wrote:
“Most current drivers will be unaffected by the change, as vehicles already licensed by the council can continue to be licensed until they are 15 years old. It will remain the case that vehicles above that age will be refused a licence unless approved for use following an exceptional condition vehicle check."

Maybe that is saying that the 15-year off rule will remain, but it could maybe more clearly distinguish current vehicles from those under the new policy :?
Author:  edders23 [ Mon Mar 31, 2025 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Derby PHDs may quit over new 5-year-old 'on' rule
clearly Derby hasn't been progressively reducing the age limits over the years like many other councils but to go straight from 15 to 5 is a BIG step.

It has to be said that I remember articles on here about the poor state of repair or lack of tyre tread on licensed vehicles etc. Maybe they should have doing something like this 10 years ago ?
Author:  StuartW [ Mon Mar 31, 2025 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Derby PHDs may quit over new 5-year-old 'on' rule
](*,)
Author:  grandad [ Tue Apr 01, 2025 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Derby PHDs may quit over new 5-year-old 'on' rule
Does Government best practice not matter at all? Why are the trade not even mentioning it?
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Apr 01, 2025 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Derby PHDs may quit over new 5-year-old 'on' rule
grandad wrote:
Does Government best practice not matter at all? Why are the trade not even mentioning it?

I suspect it because, like the vast majority of the UK's trade, they haven't read it.
Author:  StuartW [ Wed Apr 02, 2025 1:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Derby PHDs may quit over new 5-year-old 'on' rule
Or maybe they don't want to replicate the whole Wolverhampton thing :-o

After all, Wolverhampton Council cites the DfT guidance in defence of what it's done :roll:
Author:  StuartW [ Wed Apr 02, 2025 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Derby PHDs may quit over new 5-year-old 'on' rule
When I saw the photo, thought this was about another topic :lol:

And I hope that photo is an old one :roll:

Anyway, this requires careful reading :-o


City council says sorry to more than 150 Derby taxi drivers

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/d ... e-10072242

Image
Image: Derby Telegraph

The council's error led to a three-month delay in implementing new licensing rules

Derby City Council has apologised to dozens of taxi drivers following a communication error in relation to new rules about age limits for vehicles. Last week it was reported that private hire taxi drivers were unhappy with new rules, coming into force in Derby from April 1, stating taxi vehicles being licensed for the first time by the city council must be five years old or less.

Before April 1, taxi vehicles could be licensed by Derby City Council if they were less than 15 years old and complied with regulations.

But a report about the changes states the new rules should have been in force from January 1, 2025. However, an error of communication by the council – which misinformed more than 150 city drivers - resulted in the policy being suspended for three months.

The new licensing rule is controversial with drivers of private hire vehicles in disagreement with the local authority. So much so that a trade union is involved and related meetings have been held.

There are fears the “very strict” rule could drive taxi drivers out of business in Derby with newer vehicles set to cost drivers thousands when existing ones need replacing. But the council says the new age limit is required “to ensure vehicles are in good condition and more likely to meet current safety and emissions standards”.

The error came about last year when “Person A”, from the taxi trade in Derby, contacted the council to ask about the new rules. The person gave details of his circumstances - that he was a holder of an existing private hire vehicle licence for a vehicle aged seven years and was seeking confirmation of what rules he should follow in advance of January 1, 2025.

The council advised that his vehicle needed to be ULEZ or Euro 6 emissions compliant and less than 15 years old when he presents it for re-licensing “which was both technically and factually accurate”.

But similar queries were subsequently made to officers from other drivers whose circumstances were different to Person A’s. The report says: “The response provided to Person A was repeated in response to a number of those queries. That information was technically inaccurate as a generic response as the circumstances of a number of the subsequent enquirers were different to that of Person A.”

The report states that some enquirers were advocating purchasing replacement vehicles, to comply with the regulations “but it transpires that they may have purchased vehicles older than five years old as replacements” – meaning the replacement vehicles would not be able to be registered for a first time by the council.

The report adds: “In repeating the information provided to Person A, officers inadvertently omitted highlighting that requirement (age limit of five years old).”

Due to the mistake, a decision was to made to suspend the new rules by three months, allowing time to address the situation. The report says 158 drivers had been misinformed.

The reports states: “To both the trade and to committee, officers offer an unequivocal apology that the anomaly arose in the first place.”

The city council said it would provide a vehicle license to drivers "who have acted in good faith on the miscommunication and purchased replacement vehicles that are older than five years old". At the date of the report, two vehicles have this discretion applied.
Author:  StuartW [ Wed Apr 02, 2025 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Derby PHDs may quit over new 5-year-old 'on' rule
Hope everyone worked that out 8-[

But, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's basically about the difference between retesting/replating the same car, as opposed to replacing it. So they told someone that they could replate the same seven-year-old motor, but told others the same regarding replacement cars, which now have to be maximum five-years-old.

But which underlines what I always say about these things. In press reports, the difference between on/off age rules, and the difference between retested/replated cars on the one hand, and replacement cars on the other, usually isn't made clear [-(

Also, it looks like there was aditionally a Euro6 specification as well as the 15-year maximum, so for diesels in effect it looks like it's currently an 11-year or so maximum age?
Author:  StuartW [ Tue Apr 08, 2025 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Derby PHDs may quit over new 5-year-old 'on' rule
Owner of Derby taxi firm fighting council's 'pointless' new rule

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/d ... g-10091263

Michael Rowlands says he is now questioning the future of his business because of the rule change

The owner of a taxi firm in Derby has launched a petition against new rules which state that newly licensed taxis in the city must be five years old or less. Michael Rowlands says the new age limit clause by Derby City Council will significantly affect the private hire trade in Derby and is now questioning whether he should continue his business in the city.

From April 1 a private hire taxi vehicle should be five years old or less when it is being licenced by the council for the first time. This means existing licensed vehicles, no more than 15 years old, are still OK to be used for taxi hire as they have been previously licensed by the local authority.

But there is deep concern that should drivers need to replace their vehicle, it will cost them at least £15,000 so they can meet new regulations, including the new five-year clause.

Mr Rowlands, who is managing director and owner of private hire firm Sendacar, has joined a number of taxi drivers who have expressed concern over the rule change in recent weeks. He has called the new rule "pointless".

GMB Union, representing hundreds of Derby private hire taxi drivers, claims the change “threatens the licences of hundreds of drivers using vehicles made before 2021” and could ruin the taxi trade in Derby.

Derby City Council says the age limit was agreed in 2019 and has been implemented “to ensure vehicles are in good condition and more likely to meet current safety and emissions standards”.

But Mr Rowlands, 45, has set up an online petition on the change.org website titled “Save The Derby Private Hire Industry”. You can see it here - https://www.change.org/p/save-the-derby ... ation=tag_

The worried driver fears the change will see drivers move away from working in Derby and could end up switching jobs.

He said: “This particular clause affects every Derby driver and we will not have a private hire industry if the council put these barriers in place. It is a problem – it just does not make any sense.

“I now have a (March) 20 plate vehicle but that would be too old if licenced for the first time. But the car performs very well and does the job to take people around the city and to the airport safely.

“Drivers will go out of town to different licensing authorities – which means Derby City Council loses the revenue but also loses the authority to enforce and control safety standards for out-of-town vehicles.”

Mr Rowlands says he has met Derby North MP Catherine Atkinson to discuss the issue and says talks were positive and said he felt “heard” after the meeting. But he stressed there is little drivers can do at this stage but to make their voices heard.

Last month Derby taxi driver Maddy Ahmed called the news rules very strict and called for the council to give drivers more choice. He said: “The age limit for vehicles of less than five years old is too much and very strict. It is going to have a big impact. Some drivers will leave their jobs and go elsewhere.

Derby City Council was asked for a statement on the issue last month. A spokesperson said: “From April 1, Derby private hire vehicles presented for licensing for the first time must be under five years old. This is to ensure vehicles are in good condition and more likely to meet current safety and emissions standards, contributing to public safety, a cleaner environment and a better overall experience for passengers.

“Most current drivers will be unaffected by the change, as vehicles already licensed by the council can continue to be licensed until they are 15 years old. It will remain the case that vehicles above that age will be refused a licence unless approved for use following an exceptional condition vehicle check.

“We value our partnership with private hire drivers and are working with them to provide clarity and guidance on the update to licensing requirements.”
Author:  StuartW [ Tue Apr 08, 2025 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Derby PHDs may quit over new 5-year-old 'on' rule
From halfway down the petition page, looks like Derby has its own licensing system distinct from the Miscellaneous Provisions Act applying to the rest of England :-s

Seems the private hire driver needs three licences, so it's presumably a four-tier licensing system :lol:

The quadruple-lock :-o

Maybe Derby has done a Plymouth 8-[
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Derby PHDs may quit over new 5-year-old 'on' rule
Quote:
But there is deep concern that should drivers need to replace their vehicle, it will cost them at least £15,000 so they can meet new regulations, including the new five-year clause.

£15,000 for a five-year-old saloon? :---)
Author:  StuartW [ Sat May 17, 2025 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Derby PHDs may quit over new 5-year-old 'on' rule
Nothing particularly new here - usual stuff about £15k for a five-year-old saloon :-s , and while they're moaning that they can't afford that, they're also moaning that the rule might deter drivers from entering the trade :-s :-s

Maybe the age rule is a bit better explained now in terms of on/off, though. But it could surely be explained a bit more clearly and coherently than it actually is? [-(


Derby taxi drivers hold protest rally over controversial new rule

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/d ... t-10190576

The council says it will 'carefully consider' a petition which angry drivers have signed

Image
Image: GMB/Derby Telegraph

Dozens of taxi drivers have staged a protest rally against Derby City Council's decision to introduce new rules which, they say, could significantly affect the private hire trade in Derby. From April, Derby City Council implemented a new rule stating that a private hire taxi vehicle should be five years old or less when it is licensed by the authority for the first time.

This means that licensed vehicles, no more than 15 years old, can be used for taxi hire as they have been previously licensed by the local authority. But despite this, there are fears that the “strict” rule could see drivers "go out of business" if something happened to their vehicle and could put off new drivers entering the trade – which was the motivation behind the protest on Wednesday (May 14).

A petition has also been handed to the council, which the local authority says will be given "careful consideration before providing a formal response in due course.”

The council recently said the new age limit is “to ensure vehicles are in good condition and more likely to meet current safety and emissions standards”. The authority claims most drivers won't be affected by the change.

But this is disputed by taxi drivers and the GMB union which is representing them. They say the change will have a “big impact” because taxi vehicles may need replacing should there be an accident or when cars deteriorate over time.

If this is the case, then drivers will need to have a new vehicle licensed which is five years old or less – potentially costing them thousands more than an older vehicle.

They claim the cost of running a newer vehicle could cost them around £15,000 which would put them out of business, or they will find another council to be licensed with.

Michael Rowlands, owner of a private taxi firm in Derby, launched an online petition against the council’s new rule. He said: “This particular clause affects every Derby driver and we will not have a private hire industry if the council put these barriers in place. It is a problem – it just does not make any sense.”

Derby City Council has been approached for comment in response to the protest held this week. A Derby City Council spokesperson said: “We acknowledge and respect the right of private hire drivers to peacefully protest. We have received their petition outlining concerns regarding the change to licensing requirements and will give it careful consideration before providing a formal response in due course.”
Author:  StuartW [ Sat May 17, 2025 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Derby PHDs may quit over new 5-year-old 'on' rule
Quote:
Michael Rowlands, owner of a private taxi firm in Derby, launched an online petition against the council’s new rule. He said: “This particular clause affects every Derby driver and we will not have a private hire industry if the council put these barriers in place. It is a problem – it just does not make any sense.”

Ah, gotcha - I'd forgotten about the petition etc, but that explains the angle about the age rule acting as a deterrent to new drivers.

Who'd have expected that? :-s
Author:  edders23 [ Sun May 18, 2025 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Derby PHDs may quit over new 5-year-old 'on' rule
I see the GMB seem to be having a recruiting campaign in Derby. Nice to see they are spending whats left of all those subs after their salaries on flags
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