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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:12 pm 
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Streetcars post the speach and i;ll comment, our views on the industry are of course that the workers within it need to take part in the democratic process.A union is its membership if the membership were to support a call for ANY policy on immigration that would of course be what ae fight for, but if your not in it you cant influence it!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:11 pm 
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immigation is the free for all that you guys love so much, its not hard to make the connection, globalisation is coming home to roost.

its the same for those chaps in deregulated areas, once they were ok, then the "immigrants" i.e. your "wanna plate mates" all came in flooding in wanting to be taxi drivers


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:14 pm 
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GMB Branch secretary wrote:
Streetcars post the speach and i;ll comment, our views on the industry are of course that the workers within it need to take part in the democratic process.A union is its membership if the membership were to support a call for ANY policy on immigration that would of course be what ae fight for, but if your not in it you cant influence it!!!
Frank and the Media Articles and Letters
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The Mail on Sunday

Let us rewind the cameras to before the last election. The parties are about to issue their manifestos. What would have been the reaction if Tony Blair had included the following passage in Labour’s manifesto?


We intend to pursue an open borders policy. We will welcome all comers from the new EU accession countries. We intend to allow unlimited access to our labour market even if other European countries refuse to open their borders. We know that this policy will depress wages, make it difficult for students to find holiday jobs while ensuring that it is impossible to move one million people from incapacity benefit into work and persuade an additional 600,000 single parents to take jobs. Yet we believe the gains outweigh the losses.


There would have been uproar. And in this uproar we would have had a very good debate about the levels of immigration into this country. But would the Government have coasted home with a majority of almost 70? I doubt it.


But the suppression of wages and the disappearance of traditional holiday jobs have already come about. People who have worked all their lives, now find it more difficult to move to their next job. Graduates find their hands tied behind their backs when they seek jobs against new arrivals who can offer similar qualifications and work experience as well.


Of course employers have never had it so good. Merseyside agencies have been established bringing over workers from East European countries. When a Liverpool company needs new bus drivers it contacts one of the agencies for a delivery of 50 Polish bus drivers. Contrast this behaviour with Asda. Opening a new Liverpool store requiring 230 staff, Asda took 200 claimants off benefit, trained them, and gave them work in the store.


An email from Merseyside is typical. A mother writes that her husband has never been out of work for almost thirty years. He is a plasterer. But gaining the next job becomes ever more difficult.


Likewise with her sons. Both are at university. Both have taken out loans. Both of them had factored in working during the long vacation. Both of them have found this year that those jobs do not exist. They have been taken by immigrant workers.


A different tale comes from the North East. A postman writes to say that after 20 years’ service he was made redundant. He believed that all this talk about finding it difficult to find jobs were mere ‘paper talk’. He writes that he did not realise that he was reading about how he would be treated. After 12 months he is still searching for a reasonably paid job.


There is a longer term impact on wage levels on allowing an open door policy. With Britain’s population ageing I thought that, with labour becoming more scarce, care workers, and the whole army of people whose efforts help make the world go around with a smile on its face, would begin to reap more decent rewards.


But the opposite is happening. Such workers find their position undermined by this huge wave from Eastern Europe. Wages are held down and, in some cases, undercut. Frail old people in residential homes, desperately trying to keep hold of their memories, find that care workers can hardly speak English. One of the reasons why these workers are in this country is to learn our language. A great ideal. But what is the impact on somebody whose memory keeps moving into the twilight?


Do immigrants do jobs the English won’t do? David, a care worker from London, writes: ‘This is another fallacy. If they bothered to look north they will see English people doing care work, sweeping the streets, emptying dustbins, working in supermarkets. The reason that foreigners are doing these job is because a huge proportion of the population of London are not English’.


There are of course those who see a sectional interest in keeping the door open to any number of immigrants. Some of the trade unions are campaigning hard to maintain the open door policy. They are spending significant resources recruiting people from the old communist block. And do a good deal by them. But the trade union view is a partial one. It is right for them to promote their sectional interest, but it is also right to question whether the policy is good for the whole country.


Likewise the Catholic Church see a renaissance. Parishes that were going to close now find churches bulging at the seams with newcomers. Cardinal Murphy-O’Connor is absolutely right to point to the advantages that immigrants bring. Likewise he is dead right in insisting that once people are here they should be fully respected. But there is also a big political question on the numbers of immigrants that should be allowed in at any one time.


The Government believed in 2004 that there would be less than thirteen thousand new arrivals from the accession countries. The total turned out in a little over a year to be approaching half a million. Add to this total those immigrants from other parts of the world and, for 2004, the total reached almost one million.


At the same time a third of a million Brits left this country. That indicates a change in one in ten of the entire population within the life of a five year parliament. I do not believe that change on this scale is either desirable or sustainable.


An emailer from North London details that his neighbourhood has turned into a dormitory for young Eastern Europeans almost overnight. ‘The public has never been consulted on this and the implications for social cohesion, let alone national identity, are being wilfully ignored.’


Should the Government continue the same open door policy when Bulgaria and Romania join the European Union next January? It is a decision the Government are in the process of making.


All the other countries, bar Sweden, Ireland and Britain, refused to allow free access last time around. The Government this time should only agree free access to British jobs for Romanian and Bulgarian workers if all, repeat all, other European countries agree the same policy and implement it.

Thats the article G M B . In liverpool we still have thouands out of work . Unions here are activly , encoraging imigrant workers . It makes no sence . Including the G M B . What say you? . streetcars


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:15 pm 
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187ums wrote:
its the same for those chaps in deregulated areas, once they were ok, then the "immigrants" i.e. your "wanna plate mates" all came in flooding in wanting to be taxi drivers

Not too many owners mind any area being flooded with drivers, as long as those drivers don't want their own. :shock:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:30 pm 
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187, I am not a bigot, I just tell it as I see it.
I don't blame anyone for coming here to make a better life for themselves, but why can't we do it like the australians, controlled imigration.
Whenever we have this debate, people always start accusing people of being racist, I am not a racist, I am a realist and a patriot.
I work in london and I am sick of going into a shop and being served by someone who can't speak english even though they have been here for years.
If you go into a hospital/goverment building, the signs and forms are in loads of different laungage's, it all costs money.
What the powers that be need to realise, is that by allowing mass imigration, they are turning people into racists.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:03 pm 
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Streetcar that quite obviously is NOT the article reffered to but your editsd version.
FACT a large proportion of ASDA employees are on such poor wages that they are on income support ie. the tax payer is subsidising WAL MART the worlds largest supermarket.I find that disgusting.
Workers in care homes since this disgusting governments and its predecsors privatisation policies have been implementated the wages have been forced down and the care almost eradicated,these homes exist only for profit not care.
Should we impose limitations on immigration,I dont know certainly the right wing media are trying to whip up this issue.One thing is certain as long as they allowed in all UNIONS will try to recruit them.once they are organised and not undercutting the indegenious population that will establish a level playing field for all it is in the establishments interest to divide the labour force,in this industry they are spectactularly successfull hence the appalling earnings within it.Never in 40yrs as a trade union member have Iseen such a disparate worforce as in this industry.Will the TUC adopt a policy opposing immigration ive no idea one thing is for certain they are carefully looking at its implications for our if members are put out of work we cease to exist. I note with concern the habit of contributors to quote the right wing press,Ths Mail group have a disgusting record of supporting extreme right parties [the mosleyites and the Nazis] The Telegraph group was an excellent factual [industrially]publication until its take over by Conrad Black and its recent change of ownership will hardly improve the situation.You might like to try The Observer THE Guardian or even The Morning Star in conjuction with the above its hard to get a balanced view these days.Join the union have your say do not be ignored ORGANISE EDUCATE AGITATE.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:22 pm 
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streetcars wrote:


Let us rewind the cameras to before the last election. The parties are about to issue their manifestos. What would have been the reaction if Tony Blair had included the following passage in Labour’s manifesto?


We intend to pursue an open borders policy. We will welcome all comers from the new EU accession countries. We intend to allow unlimited access to our labour market even if other European countries refuse to open their borders. We know that this policy will depress wages, make it difficult for students to find holiday jobs while ensuring that it is impossible to move one million people from incapacity benefit into work and persuade an additional 600,000 single parents to take jobs. Yet we believe the gains outweigh the losses.


If Labour is to blame for the current fiasco on immigration then those who voted them into power cannot really have any cause to complain because it was they who put them there.

Labour won the 2005 General election on the smallest percentage of the vote since before the 1950's, that being 35.3%. The turnout for the 2005 general election of those eligible to vote was just 61.3%.

Abstentions from those eligible to vote amounted to 38.7%. This means that 78% of eligible voters did not vote for Labour and 22% of the electorate did.

Labours policy on immigration has been a standing dish for years and anyone with a brain knew what it was. So its a bit rich for Labour voters to now cry wolf when all the immigration chickens are well and truly coming home to roost.

Regards

JD


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:39 pm 
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Im in favour of making voting compulsory.
In the last election what choice was there Extreme right wing or moderate right wing both vermin one more amenable than the other.
minimum wage
warwick agreement
trade union rights
i probably detest this govt more than most of you still we the GMB can grt some action out of them.Definetly the Tory vermin.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:40 pm 
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Im in favour of making voting compulsory.
In the last election what choice was there Extreme right wing or moderate right wing both vermin one more amenable than the other.
minimum wage
warwick agreement
trade union rights
i probably detest this govt more than most of you still we the GMB can grt some action out of them.Definetly not the Tory vermin.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:58 pm 
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GMB Branch secretary wrote:
In the last election what choice was there Extreme right wing or moderate right wing both vermin one more amenable than the other.

Then why didn't you stand? :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:10 pm 
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GMB Branch secretary wrote:
Im in favour of making voting compulsory.
In the last election what choice was there


You highlighted a valid point and I would suggest that it will always be the case in most elections of either choosing the devil you know, or choosing the lesser of two evils? Which ever way people look at it?

I am not suggesting that one political party is any better than any other, I'm making the point that this particular Labour party policy has been well and truly advertised for decades. I would just as quickly make the same point in respect of any other political party under the same circumstance?

The best way forward might be proportional representation, perhaps then every vote will count? I think if you have compulsory voting then PR would have to be the electoral system used because those who are forced to vote might retaliate by using their vote as a protest and vote for some obscure entity like they did in Gateshead.

Regards

JD


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:12 am 
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Quote:
Not too many owners mind any area being flooded with drivers, as long as those drivers don't want their own.



true, but how would you do a crb check on them? if they have only just got in?

but if the owner offered a crap deal, they would have the freedom to go elsewhere


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:45 am 
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187ums wrote:
its funny observing the holy trinity in action...



So who's that then Mr 187ums - let me see, I'm the Father, Sussex is the Son, and JD is the Holy Spirit. O:) :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:52 am 
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187ums wrote:
...fact is they should be 100% behind immigration as its a form of competition, lets just say that this carry on is deregulation and you should be supporting it.



Why? I've pointed out to you umpteen times that I and any other derestrictionists I can think of offhand support tougher quality controls, thus you could hardly call that deregulationist and/or free market/laissez faire dogma.

The point is that restricting taxi numbers makes about as much sense as limiting the number of mosques to counter jihadist terrorism. :?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:45 am 
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GMB Branch secretary wrote:
Streetcar that quite obviously is NOT the article reffered to but your editsd version.
FACT a large proportion of ASDA employees are on such poor wages that they are on income support ie. the tax payer is subsidising WAL MART the worlds largest supermarket.I find that disgusting.
Workers in care homes since this disgusting governments and its predecsors privatisation policies have been implementated the wages have been forced down and the care almost eradicated,these homes exist only for profit not care.
Should we impose limitations on immigration,I dont know certainly the right wing media are trying to whip up this issue.One thing is certain as long as they allowed in all UNIONS will try to recruit them.once they are organised and not undercutting the indegenious population that will establish a level playing field for all it is in the establishments interest to divide the labour force,in this industry they are spectactularly successfull hence the appalling earnings within it.Never in 40yrs as a trade union member have Iseen such a disparate worforce as in this industry.Will the TUC adopt a policy opposing immigration ive no idea one thing is for certain they are carefully looking at its implications for our if members are put out of work we cease to exist. I note with concern the habit of contributors to quote the right wing press,Ths Mail group have a disgusting record of supporting extreme right parties [the mosleyites and the Nazis] The Telegraph group was an excellent factual [industrially]publication until its take over by Conrad Black and its recent change of ownership will hardly improve the situation.You might like to try The Observer THE Guardian or even The Morning Star in conjuction with the above its hard to get a balanced view these days.Join the union have your say do not be ignored ORGANISE EDUCATE AGITATE.
G B M that is the article. Taken unedited off Franks own web site. I just want you to agree with me, that in a city Like Liverpool where there are thousands out of work it is a dumb idea, to let even more immigrants from Rumania and Bulgaria in to this country and as Frank says it keep wages down. Something you should be in favour of . regardes streetcars


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