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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 7:02 pm 
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Mick Pollard wrote:
How many times will Suspect Man be let down before he realises that he will have to wait for some time before he gets his dream plate, unless he does what everyone else does and just goes out and buy one, maybe the bloke that has waited 26 years will sell him his.


Perhaps he will, perhaps he wont !!!!

Perhaps the OFT, will make old Suspect happy. :D :D :D


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 7:14 pm 
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Mick Pollard wrote:

What was this bloke doing for 26 years, was he driving a private hire vehicle, he must have been making his money to have stuck it out for "over half his working life". If he wasn't driving a private hire vehicle then what does he want with a H/C plate.




Well if you're just doing the same job in the same vehicles in the same office as HC drivers, then I daresay no one likes being disadvantaged in this way.

Presumably he isn't making the same money as the HC side, since his plate PH plate was worth nothing, whereas his HC plate will be worth £30k??

Dusty


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 7:26 pm 
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Mick Pollard wrote:

You see people are greedy, they want what others have without having to work hard or save for it. They believe its somehow a right becuase years ago these things were free, well they were not free to the majority of current holders mate and you want to rob them of their possessions like a car theif steals a car or a burgular kicks down a front door. Sussex Man constantly reveals that he believes its "tough" for those ordinary blokes who worked hard, saved or borrowed to get what they wanted, but doesn't believe that he should do any of that.

So come on, don't be so short sighted, there are people who have risked everything to get what they want, surely their situation must be considered, or are drivers of H/C not worthy of consideration.



Well I think your comparisons with theft are a bit over the top Mick, purchasers should know that they plug could be pulled and that new plates would be issued under the legislation. If they did know and took a risk then it's difficult to be sympathetic, if they didn't know, then why not, maybe a few councils (and plate sellers) should be asking themselves that, assuming de-limitation will happen in the future.

Assuming de-limitation does happen, then I'd prefer people to have owned plate for as long as possible, so if this site deters even ONE person from buying a plate at the current going rate then at least we'll have achieved something.

For example, the Scottish Taxi Federation seem to have put it about that the OFT has no relevance in Scotland, whereas I think the position there is the same as in England, indeed stuart1's email from the OFT would seem to confirm this.

Remember also that although many current plates are 'bought', some have enjoyed huge appreciations in value due to the market effectively remaining closed, so if the plate is devalued then they'll hardly have lost money they've invested.

Dusty

Dusty


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 7:35 pm 
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Mick Pollard wrote:
If it was raised within a post I wouldn't have questioned the content but dismissed it.

You see Suspect Man we cannot be expected to believe an item with no factual or checkable referances.

You see 26years is a awful long time, since 1977 to be exact, to be waiting for a plate but as no details accompany the news item no-one has the oppertunity to check with the appropriate local authority the validity of the story.

I therefore suggest that it is an un-truth, published by the owners of this site in an attempt to quantify an opinion.

And that is sad.

B. Lucky :twisted:


Well if you've any problems with any of the facts just get in touch with the relevant LA Mick, or if you've any problems legally just get a lawyer onto it, either your own or a T&G one.

I read things in many trade publications all the time and just assume they are either opinion or factually correct, if you want to cast aspersions just because you don't like the story then I think that's the sad thing, so provide the evidence - ask B&H council or the T&G boys down there.

In short, put up or shut up.

Dusty


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 7:38 pm 
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BTW Mick, what do you mean there's insufficient info to check the story - there's only one B&H council handing out plates, for Cliff's sake.

They've granted 19 recently, following the Halcrow report recommendation, and this is the first for years, can the facts be any simpler??

If you can disprove the story then get back to us.

Dusty


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 7:45 pm 
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Mick Pollard wrote:
I therefore suggest that it is an un-truth, published by the owners of this site in an attempt to quantify an opinion.

And that is sad.



OK Mick, I think that qualifies as a defamatory statement, but in the interests of free speech I won't delete it, but give you a chance to check the facts. We don't even want an apology, but if you've evidence to prove that we are lying then bring it on.

Dusty


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 7:53 pm 
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Mick Pollard wrote:
What has this story got to do with the T&G's policy of managed growth, I'll tell you IT WAS ISSUED BECAUSE OF IT. Brighton, I believe have adopted a policy of managed growth and therefore more people than ever before will be recieving invitations to apply for a H/C licence. Now that may not satisfy Suspect Man accross the border but I believe that he thought they would delimit totally and he could cross the border and work Brighton legitimatly instead of having to hide up the allleyways he does now.



No Mick, the plates were issued following Halcrow's independent survey. They had to issue 19 plates to conform with the legislation and the case law, that's the minimum the council could get away with.

So don't let the T&G let you think that that was what they wanted they didn't want any issued at all, as their sumbission to the survey made clear.

I suspect that eventually the realised that 19 would have to be issued so perhaps tried to spin things as them being charitable.

Have a look at the Halcrow report Mick, the T&G's submission is in there.

Dusty


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 7:54 pm 
Dusty Bin wrote:
BTW Mick, what do you mean there's insufficient info to check the story - there's only one B&H council handing out plates, for Cliff's sake.

They've granted 19 recently, following the Halcrow report recommendation, and this is the first for years, can the facts be any simpler??

If you can disprove the story then get back to us.

Dusty


I wonder what is meant by planned growth?


under the law if there is significant unmet demand, a council must issue plates up to a level where significant unmet demand ceases, in doing so it has been deemed un lawfull that they can issue a few then test the market.

never mind about lists, a coucil should issue criterion about how they will issue those plates and criterion used.

if say a cab driver gets a plate he may put that on a vehicle and nothing in law bars him transfering that vehicle and license to another.

there are no rules about who may or may not hold a licence outside London, inside LONDON you must demonstrate you have the neccesary resources to maintain a cab.

Where a council opperates no limit by numbers, it has a duty to publish criterion as to how plates will be issued and to whom. not forgetting of course that if say I want say a plate that an authority would not give me I can transfer one from a person who can, now at renewal an authority could take that plate from me, but It could be transfered before renewal back to whom it was transfred renewd and transfered back.

so in all this how can you have planned growth?

what is the T and G on about?
Wharfie


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 8:01 pm 
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OK Mick, I think your problem is the point made in the piece, and you're just trying to discredit us, if the story was pro-status quo then you wouldn't have criticised it at all.

Do you fire off complaints about every piece in every publication that you don't like the look of, and if not why not???

As it says on the site, we aim to represent both sides of the argument, so if you or the TGWU, locally or nationally, want to contribute something, then I'm sure we'll be able to put it on the frontpage, and it can be discussed on here by all sides.

I think that's more democratic and pro-free speech than Cab Trade News, for example, which never claims to represent both sides of the argument, I'll grant them that at least.

That's the difference Mick.

Dusty


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 8:07 pm 
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Wharfie wrote:
I wonder what is meant by planned growth?




Who knows Wharfie, but it certainly doesn't equate with the unmet demand test.

If you grossly distort the market as in Reading, for example, unmet demand will be distorted likewise, because people will be served by PH because there's no HCs to serve them.

So demand will be distorted, so less unmet demand will arise, favouring the status quo.

Dusty


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 8:30 pm 
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By the way Mick, as you know I share some of your concerns about plate premiums, but why are they never mentioned in Cab Trade News. Despite numerous articles about de-limitation over the past year or so, I can't recall there ever being one mention about premiums, can you point me to such a mention??

Why don't they mention them??

Dusty :?:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 8:38 pm 
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Because it goes against socialist/union thinking, and they are ashamed of what really goes on.

But as long as the lads keep paying into the union pot, they can do what they like.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 8:40 pm 
Dusty Bin wrote:
By the way Mick, as you know I share some of your concerns about plate premiums, but why are they never mentioned in Cab Trade News. Despite numerous articles about de-limitation over the past year or so, I can't recall there ever being one mention about premiums, can you point me to such a mention??

Why don't they mention them??

Dusty :?:


because premiums dont exist in law, so in policy making its irrelevant.

The reason for limitation is purely so that a coucil will have facilities to put and feed the horses! barmy but true

Wharfie


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 9:03 pm 
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You may be right as far as the law is concerned Wharfy, but as far as policy making is concerned, then presumably everything can be relevant??

Cab Trade News certainly cites loss of income regularly as a reason for maintaining quotas, so why not loss of premiums, as Mick does?

As far as policy is concerned, the OFT will view premiums as being unhealthy to say the least, of that I'm quite sure.

Indeed this may be the source of the problem - many in the trade don't want to highlight this because they know it looks bad.

Dusty


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 9:39 pm 
Dusty Bin wrote:
You may be right as far as the law is concerned Wharfy, but as far as policy making is concerned, then presumably everything can be relevant??

Cab Trade News certainly cites loss of income regularly as a reason for maintaining quotas, so why not loss of premiums, as Mick does?

As far as policy is concerned, the OFT will view premiums as being unhealthy to say the least, of that I'm quite sure.

Indeed this may be the source of the problem - many in the trade don't want to highlight this because they know it looks bad.

Dusty



When I ran my committees we had a solicitor, who used to tell us what we could consider and what we could not.

The Wirral judgement mentions that the council have not gone through the thinking statement of case.

It revolves around the law, if I applied for plates and cannot have them because of drivers takings I am on a roll at judical review.

When we went to court we always defended on enforcement issues though of course we only had one poor challenge.

taxidrivers are very poor at defending thier position, and when they do according to Mick its "abuse"

that wirral case is a cracker, its about a taxidriver who was issued a plate and when the council went to issue more he went to appeal on violation of human rights, like some trade unions his brain thought power of numbers would influence the argument(its not true in court you are right or wrong)
so he said all 70 were behind him, when he lost the court asked for all thier names to gaurantee the costs!

The judgement was written by a trainee judge its in minute detail and covers areas in theory on licensing principle, the high court laughed the appeal application out of court.

I can just see Mick falling into that trap, power is not in numbers but in the quality of the argument, price of premiums or driver takings are irrelevant, when used its a lost case.

I am sorry that Mick who always says stick to rules, then advocates arguments that are out of sink, thinks that is abusive the trade cannot progress with that attitude

Wharfie


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