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Row over cab loophole
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Author:  captain cab [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Row over cab loophole
Row over cab loophole




By Adam Jupp, The Evening Chronicle


Cabbies are accused of cashing in on a loophole by buying cut-price licences in rural areas and using them to work in city centres.

But firms who allow the practice face the axe as part of a crackdown by Newcastle City Council.

Public safety chiefs say drivers are travelling to authorities like Berwick and Eden to get their hackney carriage licences.

But they are using them to work as private hire drivers for firms based within the Newcastle city boundaries.

The council wants this stopped, saying they have no control over the vehicles because they are registered to a different authority.


And it is threatening to suspend or revoke the operators' licence of any company that lets its drivers exploit the loophole.


In a letter to seven private hire firms, head of public health and environmental protection Stephen Savage, argues the Local Government Act 1976 allows cars with a hackney licence to be used for private hire.


But, he says the drivers themselves must have a private hire licence from the council within which they intend to work.


Mr Savage says: "While it may be permissible under the 1976 Act for a hackney carriage vehicle to operate as a private hire vehicle, nevertheless this council is concerned that the drivers of such vehicles do not hold a separate private hire driver's licence issued by Newcastle City Council under section 51 of the 1976 Act.


"The drivers therefore are committing an offence under the legislation."


It is thought there are currently around 20 drivers who have out-of-town licences and are working for seven different firms in Newcastle.


A hackney carriage licence in Berwick costs £125 but a private hire licence in Newcastle costs £255.


The move to threaten taxi operators has split opinions in the trade. Chris Chandler, regional chairman of the National Taxi Association, said: "I welcome this move as long as it's done properly."


Berwick-upon-Tweed senior licensing officer David Wilson said: "Berwick-upon-Tweed Borough Council would neither act in a way that it knew or believed to be unlawful, or be complicit in allowing others to act unlawfully.


"The council is of the opinion that the only criteria we are entitled to consider in determining an application is whether the applicant is a fit and proper person and whether the vehicle is fit for public service as a hackney carriage."
Author:  Sussex [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Row over cab loophole
captain cab wrote:
Mr Savage says: "While it may be permissible under the 1976 Act for a hackney carriage vehicle to operate as a private hire vehicle, nevertheless this council is concerned that the drivers of such vehicles do not hold a separate private hire driver's licence issued by Newcastle City Council under section 51 of the 1976 Act.


"The drivers therefore are committing an offence under the legislation."

I look forward to see the legal opinion to back up such a view. :?
Author:  JD [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Row over cab loophole
Sussex wrote:
captain cab wrote:
Mr Savage says: "While it may be permissible under the 1976 Act for a hackney carriage vehicle to operate as a private hire vehicle, nevertheless this council is concerned that the drivers of such vehicles do not hold a separate private hire driver's licence issued by Newcastle City Council under section 51 of the 1976 Act.


"The drivers therefore are committing an offence under the legislation."

I look forward to see the legal opinion to back up such a view. :?


I think this licensing officer needs a re-test.

Regards

JD
Author:  Tom Thumb [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Trouble down are way is because a neighbouring council has ridiculously high barriers of entry and a restricted market, drivers are taking the same route as in Newcastle. Licensing in our area and working solely in the neighbouring area.

Very easy to do in reality.

So what happens to solve the problem?

Neighbouring council bullies our smaller council and ours start raising barriers of entry.

Result!!! In a few years time we will have the same 5h1t levels of service in our district as they have next door.
Author:  JD [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've spoken to Newcastle about this and it would appear at this stage that the people being targeted are the operators licensed by Newcastle. That is understandable when you consider Newcastle has no jurisdiction over anyone outside of Newcastle.

However, Newcastle did not act on the spur of the moment because they took legal advice from a barrister. Newcastle licensing department are in agreement with TDO that a test case would be most desirable, however it may not be in the interest of Newcastle because if the ruling went against them which I firmly believe it would, then they will have conveniently shot themselves and every other council in the foot?

One thing that would come out of all this is "clarity" and perhaps we can then lay the Ghost of Andy Gladen to rest?

Regards

JD
Author:  JD [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Row over cab loophole
captain cab wrote:
The move to threaten taxi operators has split opinions in the trade. Chris Chandler, regional chairman of the National Taxi Association, said: "I welcome this move as long as it's done properly."


Which NE authority licenses Mr Chandler?

Regards

JD
Author:  captain cab [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Row over cab loophole
JD wrote:
captain cab wrote:
The move to threaten taxi operators has split opinions in the trade. Chris Chandler, regional chairman of the National Taxi Association, said: "I welcome this move as long as it's done properly."


Which NE authority licenses Mr Chandler?

Regards

JD


Newcastle I think JD

regards

CC
Author:  skippy41 [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
The simple way of sorting this would be, re draw the map, as Berwickshire is half in Scotland and half in England at the moment the way I see it a cab licenced in Berwickshire can work north and south of the border
If we went back to the very old map when Hadrian's wall was built and made that the border they would know where they stood.
Just as a mater of interest how did England manage to claim a bit of Scotland when Hadrian built the wall it was recognised as the border to stop us taking bits of wembley back as trophies :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Author:  Sussex [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Tom Thumb wrote:
Neighbouring council bullies our smaller council and ours start raising barriers of entry.

Result!!! In a few years time we will have the same 5h1t levels of service in our district as they have next door.

I suppose it all depends on what one deems a poo level of service, is it poor time keeping or poor standards of vehicles and drivers?
Author:  Sussex [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
skippy41 wrote:
Just as a mater of interest how did England manage to claim a bit of Scotland when Hadrian built the wall it was recognised as the border to stop us taking bits of wembley back as trophies :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well as we've had your oil, we can't really complain too much over the goal posts. :lol: :lol:
Author:  captain cab [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Tom Thumb wrote:
Trouble down are way is because a neighbouring council has ridiculously high barriers of entry and a restricted market, drivers are taking the same route as in Newcastle. Licensing in our area and working solely in the neighbouring area.

Very easy to do in reality.

So what happens to solve the problem?

Neighbouring council bullies our smaller council and ours start raising barriers of entry.

Result!!! In a few years time we will have the same 5h1t levels of service in our district as they have next door.


I appreciate the sentiments but surely the resrticted market has nothing to do with it?

The argument seems to be Hackney's from one area operating effectively as PH in another.....PH isnt restricted as you know.

So the only reasons for this to occur are either because the criteria for drivers is too high or the PH firm likes to display its vehicles as licensed 'taxis'.

The question needs asked in respect of the high criteria for drivers is that shouldnt the criteria for all drivers....regardless of where they come from be of a high standard?

regards

CC
Author:  MR T [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think the answer is relatively simple
Author:  jimbo [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
JD wrote:
I've spoken to Newcastle about this and it would appear at this stage that the people being targeted are the operators licensed by Newcastle. That is understandable when you consider Newcastle has no jurisdiction over anyone outside of Newcastle.

However, Newcastle did not act on the spur of the moment because they took legal advice from a barrister. Newcastle licensing department are in agreement with TDO that a test case would be most desirable, however it may not be in the interest of Newcastle because if the ruling went against them which I firmly believe it would, then they will have conveniently shot themselves and every other council in the foot?

One thing that would come out of all this is "clarity" and perhaps we can then lay the Ghost of Andy Gladen to rest?

Regards

JD



I seem to remember a case from several years ago at Manchester Airport, where an out of area Driver was dropping off passengers, and was seen by a local licensing officer to be not wearing his badge. In Court the driver claimed the LO had no authority over him, but the Court decided that the LO did, when ANY driver was in his licensing area irrespective of where the driver was licensed.

Or was that a dream?
Author:  captain cab [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Or was that a dream?


We're there pink elephants and badgers dancing with foxes whilst rollerskating ....because if they were the chances are :wink:

CC
Author:  captain cab [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
buying cut-price licences


Licensing vehicles elsewhere surely :shock:

You cannot buy a license :wink:

CC
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