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Illegal Drivers Badged by Councils
http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6308		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  allo allo [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Illegal Drivers Badged by Councils
How many Councils check the immigration status of applicants for PHV or HC badges?

Both Asylum Seekers and foreign Students are not allowed by the terms of their stay in the UK, to work on a Self-Employed basis. They can work on a PAYE basis though ( with hours restrictions applying to students in term-time )

We have dozens who think they can be self- employed PH but not HC drivers (?) and our council is "looking in to the matter".

How many other councils issue badges to persons who are supposedly "fit and proper" but in reality are bogus students who are in this country for no reason other than to work illegally and realise that they can get away with it due to this lack of checking? :x
Author:  Sussex [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Illegal Drivers Badged by Councils
allo allo wrote:
How many Councils check the immigration status of applicants for PHV or HC badges?

I'm 100% certain mine does. =D>

Else they are on a hiding to nothing if the driver goes on to do something they shouldn't.

And most LOs I know like their jobs and don't fancy getting the boot. :shock:
Author:  Sussex [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Illegal Drivers Badged by Councils
allo allo wrote:
We have dozens who think they can be self- employed PH but not HC drivers (?) and our council is "looking in to the matter".

Well they are fools, and to a degree so is your council for even thinking about looking into it.

Why would they think there is a difference? :?
Author:  allo allo [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Illegal Drivers Badged by Councils
Sussex wrote:
allo allo wrote:
We have dozens who think they can be self- employed PH but not HC drivers (?) and our council is "looking in to the matter".

Well they are fools, and to a degree so is your council for even thinking about looking into it.

Why would they think there is a difference? :?


There are 2 issues here:-
1. Why should there be a difference between PH and HC as far as illegal workers are concerned? Goodness knows, because I don't
2. Councils should NOT be issuing such licenses so if they may be, then they should look into it.
Author:  grandad [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:22 am ]
Post subject: 
Unless they have been here for at least 12 months none of them should even be able to apply...............according to government best practice. :wink:
Author:  JD [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Illegal Drivers Badged by Councils
allo allo wrote:
How many Councils check the immigration status of applicants for PHV or HC badges?

Both Asylum Seekers and foreign Students are not allowed by the terms of their stay in the UK, to work on a Self-Employed basis. They can work on a PAYE basis though ( with hours restrictions applying to students in term-time )

We have dozens who think they can be self- employed PH but not HC drivers (?) and our council is "looking in to the matter".

How many other councils issue badges to persons who are supposedly "fit and proper" but in reality are bogus students who are in this country for no reason other than to work illegally and realise that they can get away with it due to this lack of checking? :x


Is there a law prohibiting councils from issuing taxi and private hire licenses to these category of persons? Contravening ones permit status is totally different than having the means to do so?

A council issues licenses and nothing more, in this day and age a person needs a P/H driver’s license to drive a licensed private hire vehicle for every reason including pleasure. Therefore if any of the persons you mention have use of a licensed private hire vehicle for pleasure then they are going to need a private hire driver’s license.

Having the means to commit a crime such as owning a gun or even a car, is not a criminal offence in itself and neither is owning a taxi drivers license.

Regards

JD
Author:  TDO [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Technically speaking, but in surely in the vast majority of cases a badge is sought for the purposes of working a PH vehicle?
Author:  JD [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
TDO wrote:
Technically speaking, but in surely in the vast majority of cases a badge is sought for the purposes of working a PH vehicle?


One would assume so but the question arises can a council legally refuse these category of persons a license under present legislative conditions?

Regards

JD
Author:  TDO [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Surely if a badge was sought with a view to some illegal purpose (in this case working in breach of the immigration rules) then it could be refused?
Author:  JD [ Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:22 am ]
Post subject: 
TDO wrote:
Surely if a badge was sought with a view to some illegal purpose (in this case working in breach of the immigration rules) then it could be refused?


I wouldn't have thought so. There is no crime committed in applying for a badge. If a council refused the application they would have to give grounds for a refusal. No doubt they would have to say that they suspect a crime might be committed if a license was granted?

How would a court react to that? I wouldn't like to say? lol.

Regards

JD
Author:  allo allo [ Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:57 am ]
Post subject: 
I would have thought that the "fit and proper" part of the LGMPA 1976 act would have precluded licensing someone who was deliberately trying to break his visa/right to work, conditions.
Author:  JD [ Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
allo allo wrote:
I would have thought that the "fit and proper" part of the LGMPA 1976 act would have precluded licensing someone who was deliberately trying to break his visa/right to work, conditions.


Councilors can do what they want in respect of fit and proper and most do but it is the courts who make the ultimate decisions on who is fit and proper? licensed?

Regards

JD
Author:  allo allo [ Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
JD wrote:
allo allo wrote:
I would have thought that the "fit and proper" part of the LGMPA 1976 act would have precluded licensing someone who was deliberately trying to break his visa/right to work, conditions.


Councilors can do what they want in respect of fit and proper and most do but it is the courts who make the ultimate decisions on who is fit and proper? licensed?

Regards

JD


That's interesting because it suggests that a person who is in this country on a student visa who deliberately sets out to breach those terms could be called "fit and proper" to drive a PHV or HC, by a councillor.
I don't see how someone who has no legal right to work in a self employed capacity could possibly be called "fit and proper" for a self employed badge.
But maybe I'm just applying logic and not the letter of the law.

What do you think could be done and by whom, if a council are issuing such licenses?
Author:  allo allo [ Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
In the DfT Best Practice Guidelines at para 43 it says:-

"The authority can obtain case specific immigration status information, including whether a licensing applicant is permitted to work or details of work restrictions, from the Evidence and Enquiry Unit, Floor 12, Lunar House, Wellesley Road, Croydon CR9 2BY." (0208 196 3011)

Surely if this is in the Guidelines it is recognised that certain persons should not be issued licenses, in line with their immigration/right to work status?
Author:  JD [ Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
allo allo wrote:
That's interesting because it suggests that a person who is in this country on a student visa who deliberately sets out to breach those terms could be called "fit and proper" to drive a PHV or HC, by a councillor.
I don't see how someone who has no legal right to work in a self employed capacity could possibly be called "fit and proper" for a self employed badge.
But maybe I'm just applying logic and not the letter of the law.

What do you think could be done and by whom, if a council are issuing such licenses?


I'm afraid what might be logical to you or I might be illogical to someone else?

What can be done you ask?

I'm afraid I don't know enough about the legal working conditions attached to foreign nationals therefore, I am the wrong person to ask.

I can only put forward a view on Taxi legislation which councilors have to abide by and I might add that the legislation in question provides a statutory appeal process for anyone who is refused a license. Therefore the courts will be the ultimate resting place for the settling of this issue.

Regards

JD
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