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UK cab trade debate and advice
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 8:29 pm 
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I had to laugh when the LTDA put the biggest sign they could get hold of, on the smallest car they could get hold of, when trying to show the mayor how bad they will look. :roll:

But I still think he will allow signage on PH in London.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:33 pm 
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Tom Thumb wrote:
I hear what you say about London Cabs being instantly recognisable.

BUT

Shouldn't they be banned from being used as private vehicles. How do I know that I haven't waved down the Duke of Ed by mistake, instead of a legitimate cabby. He might rip me off.


Would the Duke of Ed pick you up then Tom?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:35 pm 
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Alex wrote:
Cruisin' Cabby wrote:
The regulations are being set down in London to make all licensed LPH vehicles easily identifiable
Cruisin' Cabby


What easy identification do you think the Cab trade will accept Cruisin?

Perhaps a ten foot high sign with the words 'TOUT' on. :wink:

Alex


The point is not that London Taxis should be identifiable, as claerly, they already are. The point is that PH should NOT be identifiable "as a cab of ANY sort" and as such, the public would only be able to flag a taxi.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:39 pm 
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Andy7 wrote:
The point is not that London Taxis should be identifiable, as claerly, they already are. The point is that PH should NOT be identifiable "as a cab of ANY sort" and as such, the public would only be able to flag a taxi.


But then how will customers know if they are getting into a fully licensed and checked PH, or a tout.

You could say look at the plate, well in the many years that I've been doing this job, I don't think one person has ever looked at my plate number.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:40 pm 
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Alex wrote:
The bit I can't quite grasp over the signage, is surely the reason the PH firms want them is the same reason that the large Radio Taxi firms want them i.e. advertisement, and making sure the right customers get into the right licensed vehicle.

I would assume that for account customers this is a must.

Alex


So if you ran a fleet of Mercs say, you would want big signs plastered all over them? Surely the objective of the PH legislation was to AVOID them being mobile advertisements that "could be mistaken for " a taxi.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:43 pm 
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Sussex Man wrote:
Andy7 wrote:
The point is not that London Taxis should be identifiable, as claerly, they already are. The point is that PH should NOT be identifiable "as a cab of ANY sort" and as such, the public would only be able to flag a taxi.


But then how will customers know if they are getting into a fully licensed and checked PH, or a tout.

You could say look at the plate, well in the many years that I've been doing this job, I don't think one person has ever looked at my plate number.


A one tier unlimited system, Sussex Andy. As I believe I have mentioned before.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:44 pm 
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Andy7 wrote:
So if you ran a fleet of Mercs say, you would want big signs plastered all over them? Surely the objective of the PH legislation was to AVOID them being mobile advertisements that "could be mistaken for " a taxi.


But then it would be your choice to advertise or not, as the London HC boys do.

But you are right, no-one wins when people think non HCs are HCs, other than those who wish to break the law. However most courts say that advertising your firm to the public in general, and to your customers in particular is a good thing.

In the area I work, we have a massive amount of ID, not because we wish to pick up those we shouldn't, but to make certain we pick up the right ones we should.

Recently we had a un-licensed car pick up in front of one of my mates. As he had no markings, it was crystal clear he was a tout. With help from the police, it seems that hopefully his touting days are over.

We will have to wait and see.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:47 pm 
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Andy7 wrote:
A one tier unlimited system, Sussex Andy. As I believe I have mentioned before.


Now that will remove the temptation, for many of those that do what they shouldn't.

To me, a win win situation. :D :D :D :D


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 3:00 am 
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The problem with identification on PH is that the more identification there is on it, the more people identify it as a 'taxi'. And putting adverts of any kind on it makes it worse.

And since the public have never really grasped the difference between the two trades, this just causes leads to PH plying for hire and anymosity etc.

In London the two trades are furtherest apart, and therefore the public do differentiate them more, but even so I suspect many still don't realise that touting is illegal, for example.

Dusty


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:20 am 
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My point is, that it's not the vehicle that accepts an illegal hiring, but the driver.

So you could have the biggest roof signs and door signage in the world, but if the driver doesn't stop, it matters not.

However if you have a bad driver, then he will pick up with no signage whatsoever i.e. the West End.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:18 pm 
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Sussex Man wrote:
My point is, that it's not the vehicle that accepts an illegal hiring, but the driver.



Yes, I would agree, but there will always be unscrupulous drivers, and if the singage issue just confuses the public then this just increases the temptation and opportunity to pull a fast one, which is always easier with more signage.

The problem with London (as I see it at least, because I don't have first hand experience) is that because touting/plying has been allowed to go on for so long then it's difficult to do anything about it, and more identification (from the pubic viewpoint, at least), won't help this.

Indeed that's the problem with policing in general, they 'turn a blind eye' for years, then launch a crackdown/clamdown, which is little more than tokenism and a bit of huffing and puffing. After the crackdown/clampdown things return to normal.

Dusty


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 10:06 pm 
I believe that you will find the PH fleets of London would all happily accept the type of signage provision demonstrated by companies such as Addison Lee and Premier. Names in bacl of vehicles with no mention of cab etc.

The PCO must have plates on the back to enable there enforcement guys to identify a vehicle.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 6:00 pm 
I cant see why Ph see big door signs or big roof lights. If the person has rang he/she knows who they have rang.
Quite simple really.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 6:52 pm 
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Andy7 wrote:
The point is not that London Taxis should be identifiable, as clearly, they already are. The point is that PH should NOT be identifiable "as a cab of ANY sort" and as such, the public would only be able to flag a taxi.


I agree HCs should be easily identifiable.

But what happens when HCs drop out of their district? Are we saying that they, as they have big roof and door signs, are liable to pick up illegally because of those signs?

Or are we saying that they wont, because they know they can't, in the same way as PHs also shouldn't.

I go back to my previous post, it's the quality of driver that counts, not the size of vehicle signage.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:45 am 
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Hmmmmmm. Yes. :?

If PH became incognito, then I suppose we would go back to arguing about foriegn Taxis picking up in "our" area. Just like the good old days.

Perhaps, if we went single-tier, delimited, national legislation, then we should also get rid of zones, so an out of area Hackney could be flagged anywhere? But could only use ranks in his local area? :wink: After all, buses are not limited to a specific zone or area. They can trade anywhere.

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