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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:49 pm 
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Location: Miles away from paradise, not far from hell.
TAXI BOSS IN LICENCE BATTLE

The boss of a city taxi company will today launch an appeal to win a private hire operator's licence at Plymouth Crown Court. Lawrence Brown is contesting the decision of Plymouth City Council to refuse him permission to run the Silverline minicab firm.

He is also appealing against the ruling of Plymouth magistrates in upholding that refusal.

The start of the three-day hearing was delayed from yesterday.

Plymouth City Council claims that Mr Brown, the owner of the business, is unfit to hold a licence.

The licensing committee argued that, rather than running the company on his own account, he was acting as frontman for previous Silverline owner Les Palmer, himself deemed as not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a licence.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:25 pm 
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Location: Plymouth, i think, i'll just check the A to Z!
yep here we go again.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:30 pm 
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Location: Plymouth, i think, i'll just check the A to Z!
I'm not too sure if Brown is still Les Palmers puppet. Palmer has been in the press recently promoting Central taxis new PH side. up til recently Central were 100% black cab WAV's that did radio PH work too. taking on some PH saloon drivers avoids putting up the drivers rent i suppose.

other rumours are that the central PH and Silverline are now one and the same, but thats just gossip remember.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:33 pm 
steveo wrote:
yep here we go again.


Whats your take on this steve? What do you think the outcome will be? If the Judge thinks Mr Brown is a front man he may take a dim view of it. On the other hand if the business is and has been run soundly then the Judge may form the opinion he is a fit and proper person.

Interesting place Plymouth there never seems to be a dull moment. Is that other Operator still going ahead with his challenge for a H/C carriage plate?

Best wishes

JDl


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:46 pm 
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Now the way I see it is that anyone, even me, can apply for a Plymouth Ops license.

That application can only be rejected if I'm deemed not to be 'fit and proper'. How I would use that license shouldn't matter until I get it.

It's a bit like not licensing a driver just in case he may speed in the future.

The fact that the gent maybe a front is to me irrelevant, if he has an ops license he can give any work he gains to anyone, provided they are licensed.

The fact that he doesn't own the firm he chooses to give that work is also irrelevant.

But hey, this is Plymouth. :shock:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:16 pm 
Sussex wrote:
Now the way I see it is that anyone, even me, can apply for a Plymouth Ops license.

That application can only be rejected if I'm deemed not to be 'fit and proper'. How I would use that license shouldn't matter until I get it.

It's a bit like not licensing a driver just in case he may speed in the future.

The fact that the gent maybe a front is to me irrelevant, if he has an ops license he can give any work he gains to anyone, provided they are licensed.

The fact that he doesn't own the firm he chooses to give that work is also irrelevant.

But hey, this is Plymouth. :shock:


I obviously I read it wrong, I was of the opinion he already had the licence and they were trying to take it away lol on reading it again it clearly states he was refused. This should be an interesting case, I wonder what evidence the council will produce to back up their theory that this man is not fit and proper?

Best wishes

JD


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:04 pm 
Surely if even he loses then one of the drivers can get an ops license themselves.

So what's the whole point, the firm isn't going to disappear, is it? :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:40 pm 
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Location: Plymouth, i think, i'll just check the A to Z!
todays news on it:

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=133188&command=displayContent&sourceNode=133171&contentPK=10952251

TAXI BOSS IN LEGAL FIGHT FOR LICENCE


12:00 - 15 September 2004
A Plymouth taxi company boss yesterday launched an appeal against a city council ruling to refuse him a private hire operator's licence.

Lawrence Brown, boss of cab firm Silverline, is contesting the council's decision and also the decision by city magistrates to uphold that ruling.

In Plymouth Crown Court yesterday, barrister Anthony Defreitas, acting for Plymouth City Council, outlined their case.

Mr Defreitas explained that Leslie Palmer, the former owner of Silverline, lost his operator's licence in 1997 when the council decided he was not a 'fit and proper' person to run a taxi firm.

The overall running of the firm was taken over by Lawrence Brown and fellow director Peter Langmead.

Mr Langmead has since resigned from his post and it is the council's case that Mr Brown has been acting as a 'stooge' and that it has been Mr Palmer pulling the strings.

Mr Defreitas yesterday told the court: "As far as the council are concerned Mr Brown, in this case, has acted as a stooge for Mr Palmer.

"It was the case that Mr Palmer had an active involvement.

"The evidence is quite clear that Mr Palmer continued to have an intimate involvement in the business and continued to have into 2004 and that this was just a complete charade.

"We will hear from people directly involved with Silverline - they will tell us it is quite clear that the person running the business and making the decisions is Mr Palmer."

Mr Brown bought Silverline from Mr Palmer in 1997. Yesterday the court heard that he had run the taxi firm since then, although at times he had sought advice from Mr Palmer for his 'wealth of experience' and because Mr Brown's experience in business until then had been as a publican and a cafe owner.

Mr Defreitas said: "Mr Brown said Mr Palmer was used as a consultant because of his massive amount of work in the private hire industry."

The case continues today.


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 Post subject: the end of it?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:42 pm 
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http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?command=newPage&nodeId=133164&contentPK=10970341

£400000 SCANDAL OF TAXI CASE

12:00 - 17 September 2004

Plymouth's council tax payers could face a legal bill of up to £400,000 after Plymouth City Council became embroiled in a bitter legal battle between rival taxi firms - and lost. A crown court judge yesterday dramatically threw out the council's case that the boss of private hire firm Silverline, Lawrence Brown, should be refused a licence.

It brought to an end a bitter dispute lasting more than a year which was sparked by a rival firm's objection to Mr Brown's licence application.

The council now faces a potential £250,000 claim for damaging the firm's business, plus £70,000 for Silverline's court costs. The council's own costs, estimated to be tens of thousands of pounds, could bring the total bill for council tax payers to £400,000.

After the hearing Silverline boss Laurence Brown said he was happy and relieved that he had won his appeal against a council licensing committee decision in April 2003 not to grant him an operator's licence.

His solicitor Michael Hayman criticised the council for wasting public money on a row he claimed was sparked by a 'turf war' initiated by a rival private hire operator.

Judge Francis Gilbert stopped the case early saying the council had 'not provided any evidence' against Mr Brown.

The council's licensing committee had refused to grant a licence because they believed Mr Brown was just a front man for Leslie Palmer, Silverline's former owner, who himself was refused a licence in 1997.

But Judge Gilbert said: "Having considered the evidence provided by Plymouth City Council, there is no evidence that any member of the public has been harmed or jeopardised in any way since 1997.

"There is no evidence that he (Mr Brown) has failed to keep any records required by the act. And there is no evidence of any defect in his record keeping.

"The council has failed to make out their case, failed to discharge the burden upon them and therefore we allow the appeal."

Outside court, Mr Brown said he had been vindicated by the decision and was now preparing to take legal action against the city council.

He had fought for his business at the licensing committee, then at an appeal hearing before Plymouth magistrates - which he lost - before yesterday's final victory at the city's crown court.

He said he wanted to recover his legal costs and wanted compensation for the many customers - and half his drivers - he had lost, he claimed, due to the council's actions.

Mr Brown's solicitor, Michael Hayman, said: "The claim against the city council will be in the region of £250,000 and then there are the costs.

"There are the costs from the magistrates and crown court hearings and the costs of accountants for those is simply breathtaking.

"Our own legal costs are in the region of £60,000 to £70,000."

Mr Brown said he was a happy and relieved man after yesterday's hearing and told the Herald of his gratitude to those drivers and customers who had stood by the company.

"I am still here, I am still the operator and I might be for the next 20 years," he said.

"We will be making a complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman and to the district auditor about the council.

"The main thing is that it is costing the people of Plymouth a lot of money for nothing."

A Plymouth City Council spokesman said it was considering what action it would take following the judgment.

The spokesman said: "We are considering the judgement and we have not yet decided what steps, if any, we will take next."

During the hearing the court was told the council's case was that Leslie Palmer, rather than Mr Brown, was the man behind Silverline.

The court was told Mr Palmer, the former owner of Silverline, lost his operator's licence in 1997 when the council decided he was not a 'fit and proper' person to run a taxi firm. The overall running of the firm was taken over by Mr Brown and later former fellow-director Peter Langmead.

Mr Langmead has since resigned from his post and the council claimed that Mr Brown was not in control and that it has been Mr Palmer running the firm.

This was denied by Mr Brown, who said he was in control but would sometimes seek advice from Mr Palmer, who still worked for the company.

In his summing up of the case, Judge Gilbert explained that the job of the operator was to keep records of the bookings and keep records of the vehicle licenses and said he had seen nothing to prove Mr Brown had not been doing it properly.

The saga began when Mr Brown's original licence renewal application was the subject of objections by rival operators, Taxifast and its parent company Key Cabs.

Managing director of Key Cabs John Preece and Mr Brown both hired barristers to put their cases before a five-day special hearing of then Tory-run Plymouth City Council licensing committee in April 2003.

The licensing committee found that Mr Brown and his then partner Peter Langmead were not 'fit and proper people' to run the company, based on their finding that Mr Palmer was actually running the company.

Announcing the committee's decision, its chairman Cllr Tom Savery then went on to dismiss Mr Preece's claim he was objecting out of concern for public safety and accused Mr Preece of distributing 'propaganda', containing 'unsubstantiated allegations' about Silverline and Mr Palmer, in a newsletter. But Mr Preece insisted after the hearing that he had been acting in the interests of all taxi operators. He was today unavailable for comment.


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 Post subject: Re: the end of it?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:06 pm 
steveo wrote:
http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?command=newPage&nodeId=133164&contentPK=10970341

£400000 SCANDAL OF TAXI CASE

12:00 - 17 September 2004

Plymouth's council tax payers could face a legal bill of up to £400,000 after Plymouth City Council became embroiled in a bitter legal battle between rival taxi firms - and lost. A crown court judge yesterday dramatically threw out the council's


Just goes show that prejudiced councillors should be armed with the facts before they take the licence away from a business that is and has been run according to good practice. To ban a person from holding a licence just because you don't like his associates is a serious abuse of power.

The Judge got it dead right in this case, the council substituted inuendo for fact and they deserve all they get.

Perhaps this case may serve as a warning to others.

Best wishes

JD


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:14 pm 
Wasn't this the man wh Who was selling contraband tobacco in his offices? Wasn't this the man who using red diesel in his cars evading fuel duty? In my eyes he's not fit and proper.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:55 pm 
Nidge wrote:
Wasn't this the man wh Who was selling contraband tobacco in his offices? Wasn't this the man who using red diesel in his cars evading fuel duty? In my eyes he's not fit and proper.


I don't know if he has any cars of his own, I assume if he had commited the crime that you accuse him off he would have been prosecuted. I am not in a position to comment on him selling contraband tobacco but I'm sure u will point us to the information that suggests he was.

The council had every opportunity to convince the court that this person wasn't fit and proper, the court decided the council failed on that score. What other decision could the court come to under the cirmunstances?

Best wishes

JD


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:00 pm 
Wasn't that the guy Palmer that was featured in the BBC Money Programme?

He had already lost his license, but I think that the court case involved the guy who it was claimed was a front for Leslie Palmer, but obviously there wasn't proof.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:22 pm 
Anonymous wrote:
Wasn't that the guy Palmer that was featured in the BBC Money Programme?

He had already lost his license, but I think that the court case involved the guy who it was claimed was a front for Leslie Palmer, but obviously there wasn't proof.


Without specific detailed knowledge of the accusations which Nigel submitted it is hard to comment on these revelations. I Would have thought that if this person had previously breached the law in anyway his credentials as a fit and proper person would have been brought into question long before today.

As individuals we can only judge the courts decision on the facts presented to the court by the Council. That doesn't mean that individuals have to conform to the Judges opinion only to the fact it wasn't proven in a court of Law that he was unfit.

Another point is that anyone who seems fit to accusse others should first be prepared to back up their accusations with fact, not inuendo. That specifically applies to both Plymouth Council and to Nigel.



Best wishes

John Davies


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:02 pm 
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There was a programme dealing with illegal goings on in Plymouth, along with the dodgy goings on with Medigen in Halifax.

However the gent who was refused his ops license was not involved, but I think acquainted with someone who was. Maybe it was the chap would he was accused of being a front-man.

But all of that is irrelevant, the chap before the judge was accused of one thing, and one thing only, and that was he wasn't the boss. Well Plymouth Council you don't need to be the boss to be an operator, just a 'fit and proper' person.

As someone who has been following this sad saga (with Steveo and others) the conclusion of it doesn't surprise me one jot. The council started something they shouldn't have, and didn't have the balls to stop it before it got to court.

If the article is right, and the judge didn't have to hear one word from the defence, then that is clear evidence of a [edited by admin] poor case, led by a [edited by admin] poor legal team, trying to defend a [edited by admin] poor council.

I very much look forward to the District Auditor's report. :shock:

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