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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:36 pm 
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John i can see where your coming from and i am continuously recommending a GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE THIS GOVERNMENT and replace it with one that undertakes to prosecute the banksters and renationalise ALL the Utility comapny's and the Railways WITHOUT COMPENSATION.

SO ADDRESS THAT PROPOSAL DEAR CHAP .......AND LEAVE OUT YOUR NORMAL DEFEATISM........... :D


I go along totally with your top paragraph.

There is NO defeatism in my posting - it is called alternative. As much as you and I for that matter agree on nationalisation, it is not happening because all the greedy boys are in it together.........Alternative,Alternative,Alternative,.......there has to be one ](*,)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:36 pm 
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Alternative John of course its called democratic socialism.............but it wont happen without participation of the likes of you and i.........which is where we occassionally fall out...........................i'm doing my bit ...........................are you :?: :?:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:30 pm 
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which is where we occassionally fall out



We do not fall out! It is just a case of agreeing to disagree (something in common already).

I would suggest that before you aim for "democratic Socialism", that "Democracy" in itself should be at the top of the list............as we do not have it. It looks like you have "The cart before the Horse".

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:55 pm 
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cabby john wrote:
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which is where we occassionally fall out



We do not fall out! It is just a case of agreeing to disagree (something in common already).

I would suggest that before you aim for "democratic Socialism", that "Democracy" in itself should be at the top of the list............as we do not have it. It looks like you have "The cart before the Horse".


kindly explain your version of democracy. :D Having an unelected Head of state by birthright might be a starting point, and note all JP's Magistrates, Judges, MP's Lords Police and Armed Forces are required to take an oath of LOYALTY to that individual personally NOT THE NATION only other regime to insist on that **** GERMANY :evil:

Thought that might be a helpfull starting point me old mate :p :p

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:24 pm 
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trotskys twin wrote:
cabby john wrote:
Quote:
which is where we occassionally fall out



We do not fall out! It is just a case of agreeing to disagree (something in common already).

I would suggest that before you aim for "democratic Socialism", that "Democracy" in itself should be at the top of the list............as we do not have it. It looks like you have "The cart before the Horse".


kindly explain your version of democracy. :D Having an unelected Head of state by birthright might be a starting point, and note all JP's Magistrates, Judges, MP's Lords Police and Armed Forces are required to take an oath of LOYALTY to that individual personally NOT THE NATION only other regime to insist on that **** GERMANY :evil:


Thought that might be a helpfull starting point me old mate :p :p


I think that you are getting the gist of it. In a nutshell.......... we do not have it. They tell you that you have it........and people believe them #-o

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:09 am 
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We do not fall out! It is just a case of agreeing to disagree (something in common already).

I would suggest that before you aim for "democratic Socialism", that "Democracy" in itself should be at the top of the list............as we do not have it. It looks like you have "The cart before the Horse".[/quote]

kindly explain your version of democracy. :D Having an unelected Head of state by birthright might be a starting point, and note all JP's Magistrates, Judges, MP's Lords Police and Armed Forces are required to take an oath of LOYALTY to that individual personally NOT THE NATION only other regime to insist on that **** GERMANY :evil:


Thought that might be a helpfull starting point me old mate :p :p[/quote]

I think that you are getting the gist of it. In a nutshell.......... we do not have it. They tell you that you have it........and people believe them #-o[/quote]

Stating the bleedin obvious springs to mind .................so how do we educate the MORONS and start to change the system????????????? thats the crux of it to me :D

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:31 pm 
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Stating the bleedin obvious springs to mind .................so how do we educate the MORONS and start to change the system????????????? thats the crux of it to me :D


It is funny how things turn out. I posted a few days ago and this turns up in our local paper yesterday.


http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/news- ... me-6504136

Try to read through the "Welsh" bit if you can without letting it get too personal - it is very much as I said.....very, very, broken.

Go on line and Google "What would happen if we did not vote", it is, and has been very much a talking point.

A lot of the population are sick to death with this charade of apparent "democracy", that year by year are seeing the demise of living standards, and what (was) technically one of the better countries in the world.

Before you go off on a rant, I guess you live in London or around that way, so...........what are you doing to stop your manor being saturated into virtually becoming a foreign country? The answer is nothing, the same nothing as drivers all around the country who in many cases have "nothing" to use as leverage. It is easy to slag them off as they do not have the same Union faith or backing as they do in "Paris" - that is not your fault as such.........but it is the fault of the Unions. If you lose faith in a product/service/whatever, then you just stop using it - that is what happened to the Unions.

The Unions en masse have to concentrate on parts of the country where they can make a difference. When people see that happening they will come back in droves. Unfortunately it will not happen as Unions have become a business, the leaders are dipping their fingers in the till just like the big boys, big salaries, flash cars, and the life style far removed from their roots.

The bottom line is that everything is rotten and the Unions watch while the U.K burns. In the meantime I will not waste a second of my life span to cast a ping pong vote.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:54 am 
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cabby john wrote:
Quote:
Stating the bleedin obvious springs to mind .................so how do we educate the MORONS and start to change the system????????????? thats the crux of it to me :D


It is funny how things turn out. I posted a few days ago and this turns up in our local paper yesterday.


http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/news- ... me-6504136

Try to read through the "Welsh" bit if you can without letting it get too personal - it is very much as I said.....very, very, broken.

Go on line and Google "What would happen if we did not vote", it is, and has been very much a talking point.

A lot of the population are sick to death with this charade of apparent "democracy", that year by year are seeing the demise of living standards, and what (was) technically one of the better countries in the world.

Before you go off on a rant, I guess you live in London or around that way, so...........what are you doing to stop your manor being saturated into virtually becoming a foreign country? The answer is nothing, the same nothing as drivers all around the country who in many cases have "nothing" to use as leverage. It is easy to slag them off as they do not have the same Union faith or backing as they do in "Paris" - that is not your fault as such.........but it is the fault of the Unions. If you lose faith in a product/service/whatever, then you just stop using it - that is what happened to the Unions.

The Unions en masse have to concentrate on parts of the country where they can make a difference. When people see that happening they will come back in droves. Unfortunately it will not happen as Unions have become a business, the leaders are dipping their fingers in the till just like the big boys, big salaries, flash cars, and the life style far removed from their roots.

The bottom line is that everything is rotten and the Unions watch while the U.K burns. In the meantime I will not waste a second of my life span to cast a ping pong vote.


First my manor becoming a foreign country ffs my family were immigrants from the HUNGER and were in the EU. to be honest i dont give a flying fekk about anyones Nationality colour or religion its their willingness to intigrate to Unionise to not SCAB or work below the minimum wage [which will be frequently for indigenous employers #-]o that concerns me :D

You ctitisize Unions but fail to recognise they can only reflect their membership it is in my opinion absolutely essential for all WORKERS to be Unionised and active within their Union rest assured i have been and am currently involved in battles with Unions on many points but their MY Union our creation and will be responsive to MY aims given i put in the time and effort, many of your comments are correct about sell outs [ iwas a victim of the sell out by Brenda Dean ffs] i believe in participation not sniping from outside.

The UK burns while the Unions watch SO TRUE OF COURSE, but is there support for a General Strike to eradicate these Tory scum?? Do people get politically active and demand the Labour Party become the Party of the People by re nationalising the Utilitys the Railways protecting the NHS looking after pensioners NO is the answer #-o

The real question is why dont they ? ignorance, greed stupidity very likely a bit of everything, the lesson is be involved or suffer the consequences, the Labour Party is our creation because the Libs and the Tory;s betrayed the working class it can only fulfill its historic by role be reverting to its radical routes and they will only ever be achieved by the ACTIVE PARTICIPATION OF THE LIKES OF YOU ME AND OTHERS, sit on yer arse snipe from the side dont vote achieves what we have.............shyttttte. #-o

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:24 pm 
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sit on yer arse snipe from the side dont vote achieves what we have.............shyttttte. #-o


Not until you can get the feel of others will you move forward.

You mentioned "Defeatism" in an earlier post when in actual fact I was talking about the "Alternative".

Now you are saying that I am "Sniping" from the side! You should be trying to see other peoples opinions (obviously you do not have to agree). I am not "Sniping", but I am most certainly throwing you reasons (genuine reasons) as to why many things are wrong.

So many things are broken: Take voting! You have a TV broadcast/interview of an aspiring political leader who comes across as the guy who is going to sort out the eternal mess. Right everyone says, he's a nice boy I am going to vote for him. So then you trundle down to the voting booth (not to actually vote for the person who was on TV), but to vote for some guy/woman who you have never seen, who's policies/beliefs you have not got a clue about!!!!!!!!!!!

They/whoever (the TV person) get in on the promise that everyone is going to win first prize in the lottery, everything is going to be rosy in the garden, and fairies will be forever flying around your garden/block of flats. Of course people fall for it, and as ever they renege because the other party left us all in the poop. In a nutshell they have entered government on the back of lies, fraudulent claims, promises that they cannot keep - the kind of thing that would get anyone else sacked from their job if they did the same.

Take into account just two of the above paragraphs - and you would recommend to everyone that we all continue to follow such stupidity and criminality??????????

Quote:
You ctitisize Unions but fail to recognise they can only reflect their membership


It is wrong to say that it can only reflect in their membership. Leadership will only come from within i.e the man at the top. When there is genuine leadership, then the membership will increase when they see success being achieved. If a product is not right then you simply do not continue to purchase, as has been proven by millions of workers who left the unions. It is only by virtue of the fact that the unions are receiving (grants) and sizeable ones at that, that the waters on the militancy side of things have remained very, very, calm. The unions have stood by en bloc and watched 100,000s of jobs go overseas and have not raised an eyebrow, is that the selling point for raising membership - I do not think so.

Let me put it to you another way ( this is not a personal swipe); The government along with their wealthy friends have well and truly screwed this country up, the Unions have assisted them from the people at the top!!!!!! Annnnd now........they are asking for my/our help to get out of it :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin:

The first move should come from the unions by renouncing any claim to government funding/bribes, that is the first salvo that will produce a shift in the workforce mind-set.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:17 pm 
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It is wrong to say that it can only reflect in their membership. Leadership will only come from within i.e the man at the top.


we all know where that leads

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:14 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
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It is wrong to say that it can only reflect in their membership. Leadership will only come from within i.e the man at the top.


we all know where that leads


Arthur scar gill, maybe? Watch inside out from last Monday on I player. The lincolnshire Yorkshire edition.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:58 pm 
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cabby john wrote:
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sit on yer arse snipe from the side dont vote achieves what we have.............shyttttte. #-o


Not until you can get the feel of others will you move forward.

You mentioned "Defeatism" in an earlier post when in actual fact I was talking about the "Alternative".

Now you are saying that I am "Sniping" from the side! You should be trying to see other peoples opinions (obviously you do not have to agree). I am not "Sniping", but I am most certainly throwing you reasons (genuine reasons) as to why many things are wrong.

So many things are broken: Take voting! You have a TV broadcast/interview of an aspiring political leader who comes across as the guy who is going to sort out the eternal mess. Right everyone says, he's a nice boy I am going to vote for him. So then you trundle down to the voting booth (not to actually vote for the person who was on TV), but to vote for some guy/woman who you have never seen, who's policies/beliefs you have not got a clue about!!!!!!!!!!!

They/whoever (the TV person) get in on the promise that everyone is going to win first prize in the lottery, everything is going to be rosy in the garden, and fairies will be forever flying around your garden/block of flats. Of course people fall for it, and as ever they renege because the other party left us all in the poop. In a nutshell they have entered government on the back of lies, fraudulent claims, promises that they cannot keep - the kind of thing that would get anyone else sacked from their job if they did the same.

Take into account just two of the above paragraphs - and you would recommend to everyone that we all continue to follow such stupidity and criminality??????????

Quote:
You ctitisize Unions but fail to recognise they can only reflect their membership


It is wrong to say that it can only reflect in their membership. Leadership will only come from within i.e the man at the top. When there is genuine leadership, then the membership will increase when they see success being achieved. If a product is not right then you simply do not continue to purchase, as has been proven by millions of workers who left the unions. It is only by virtue of the fact that the unions are receiving (grants) and sizeable ones at that, that the waters on the militancy side of things have remained very, very, calm. The unions have stood by en bloc and watched 100,000s of jobs go overseas and have not raised an eyebrow, is that the selling point for raising membership - I do not think so.

Let me put it to you another way ( this is not a personal swipe); The government along with their wealthy friends have well and truly screwed this country up, the Unions have assisted them from the people at the top!!!!!! Annnnd now........they are asking for my/our help to get out of it :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin:

The first move should come from the unions by renouncing any claim to government funding/bribes, that is the first salvo that will produce a shift in the workforce mind-set.


Bloody hell John surely this is about us getting ourselves out of the POOP #-o IE OUR NATION .........CHILDREN PENSIONERS THE SICK THE WORKERS THE POPULATION, SOMETHING I AM ALWAYS WILLING TO BE INVOLVED IN...........................NOT YOU EVIDENTLY #-o

UNIONS DO NOT SELL A PRODUCT THEY REACT TO THEIR MEMBERS WISHES ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ITS THOSE WISHES I WANT TO INFLUENCE =D>

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:32 pm 
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NOT YOU EVIDENTLY #-o


Not entirely true. The present system is broken and for that matter probably always has been, clearly demonstrated by the game that they play as mentioned....ping pong. It needs a total change i.e accountability, accountability, accountability................NO MORE LIES - NO PROMISES that cannot be delivered etc etc and proper leadership.


Quote:
UNIONS DO NOT SELL A PRODUCT THEY REACT TO THEIR MEMBERS WISHES


The Unions/Union leaders only ever incite the masses to go out when they have an agenda. It never is, and never was enough for the members to say we want to strike. I have known situations where the workforce wanted industrial action.........they were talked out of it by the Union reps!

The leaders are failing to lead all round - by that I mean politicians and trade union top brass, and it will never be right unless you root out the bad from both sides - having said that, they probably all drink in the same club - the British mafia are doing very nicely.

The path that you continue to promote,................. is a tried/tested and failed format. So! back to the future that involves thinking outside of the box - Alternatives!

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