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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:21 pm 
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Cast your minds back a decade or two! We had a similar situation, but they were afraid of " The Brain Drain".

The thoughts back then were.............Let em go!!! Unfortunately the b#$t&$^#$ stayed - and here we are today.

More spin.........and we will sit and watch it :shock:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:46 pm 
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cabby john wrote:
Cast your minds back a decade or two! We had a similar situation, but they were afraid of " The Brain Drain".

The thoughts back then were.............Let em go!!! Unfortunately the b#$t&$^#$ stayed - and here we are today.

More spin.........and we will sit and watch it :shock:



Its always a threat - but in these days of internet transactions and suchlike I would say any company wishing to relocate could anyway.

Indeed many already have - I have never read about Japanese workers complaining about Nissan opening factories in the UK.

But at the same time the UK has lost many manufacturing jobs because companies have relocated - British Steel is one example 'bought out' by TATA with steelworks closing and new places opening in areas with lower welfare / health & safety regulations than here. Good for shareholders but devastating for communities - we went through similar with mines - the car industry is next although arguably its been happening for a long time already - ford and GM are opening factories in Eastern Europe.

The article below highlights companies leaving the UK because of the cost of energy due to climate change taxes etc - of course these companies will open elsewhere and put out more pollution due to standards being lower - the result will be the same - we'll either all drown due to the polar ice caps melting - or we'll run out of oxygen. - Of course the only way to really stop such things happening is import taxes to make it actually quite expensive to set up abroad and sell here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... evies.html

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:28 am 
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http://t.co/qqIwAGpU6h

Esther McVey: Great news for Wirral
Feb 20 2013
WHAT wonderful news for Wirral that a car parts manufacturing plant is planned for the Wirral Waters project.
Wirral Waters is one of the first areas granted Enterprise Zone status by this government, and one of only six sites in the UK to benefit from generous Enhanced Capital Allowances.
Having acquired Enterprise Zone status, owners Peel Holdings applied and obtained planning permission – in fact achieving the biggest planning permission in Europe – to enable it to become an International Trade Centre and car manufacturing site, benefiting from direct dock, rail and motorway access.
This magnificent scheme will see around 27,000 new jobs created over the next 30 years and a 1,000 in the next year. Exactly the kind of private enterprise we need in this area, and what the Government's policies have set out to deliver.

During the project, around 35 acres of derelict brownfield land in Birkenhead Docks will be transformed into a site for manufacturing activities and portside-based business. The plan was announced on Friday during a tree-planting ceremony marking the start of Peel Holdings’ £4.5bn dockside regeneration scheme.
This good news comes hot on the heels of research undertaken by the National Endowment for Science, Technology and the Arts, that tracked the number and type of companies that had increased in employment over the past three years and Birkenhead now has the second- highest concentration of fast- growing companies in the UK.
Wirral is already a great place to live, work and visit, and this great news will simply serve to enhance Wirral’s growing reputation.

We appear to be bucking the trend :shock: I guess we'll have to wait and see though :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:44 am 
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toots wrote:
http://t.co/qqIwAGpU6h

Esther McVey: Great news for Wirral
Feb 20 2013
WHAT wonderful news for Wirral that a car parts manufacturing plant is planned for the Wirral Waters project.
Wirral Waters is one of the first areas granted Enterprise Zone status by this government, and one of only six sites in the UK to benefit from generous Enhanced Capital Allowances.
Having acquired Enterprise Zone status, owners Peel Holdings applied and obtained planning permission – in fact achieving the biggest planning permission in Europe – to enable it to become an International Trade Centre and car manufacturing site, benefiting from direct dock, rail and motorway access.
This magnificent scheme will see around 27,000 new jobs created over the next 30 years and a 1,000 in the next year. Exactly the kind of private enterprise we need in this area, and what the Government's policies have set out to deliver.

During the project, around 35 acres of derelict brownfield land in Birkenhead Docks will be transformed into a site for manufacturing activities and portside-based business. The plan was announced on Friday during a tree-planting ceremony marking the start of Peel Holdings’ £4.5bn dockside regeneration scheme.
This good news comes hot on the heels of research undertaken by the National Endowment for Science, Technology and the Arts, that tracked the number and type of companies that had increased in employment over the past three years and Birkenhead now has the second- highest concentration of fast- growing companies in the UK.
Wirral is already a great place to live, work and visit, and this great news will simply serve to enhance Wirral’s growing reputation.

We appear to be bucking the trend :shock: I guess we'll have to wait and see though :wink:



Yes its great news.

The Chinese investment - which obviously led to Wirral Councillors getting a trip to China was one - hardly surprising seeing as 50% of the scheme is funded by the Chinese;

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpoo ... -31018319/

The political involvement makes you wonder - considering what was reported in Salford;

http://www.salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=211

But the above article is kind of explained when you read the following where Peel Holdings received £31 million in subsidies to develop the port at Salford;

http://newsmanchester.wordpress.com/201 ... t-salford/

Of course some councils fight back - Hyndburn was one - yet Peel instantly brought in barristers to overturn a planning application;

http://hhgrahamjones.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... night.html

Wirral council have done a deal with the devil - Peel will get the profits and tax payers will foot the bill.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:00 am 
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Liverpool City Council (Labour controlled) has announced it will pay 5 million to allow Peel to have a Turnaround terminal.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14842615

Liverpool City Council has already set aside £10m towards a £23m new passenger and baggage handling facility at the terminal, and Peel is expected to fund the balance if the council wins the “turnaround” status.

The firm said it had made no commitment but did not rule it out.
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/briefin ... ool_docks/

Of course we should note the amount of jobs Peel are going to create;

This article from a controversial scheme in Irlam claims 10,000 jobs would be created - strange as their building houses;

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... ngs-697699

The Liverpool article mentioned in this post claims 20,000 jobs would be created.

The promise of jobs does tend to be for the benefit of public persuasion though - don't you think?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:27 am 
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toots wrote:
Exactly the kind of private enterprise we need in this area, and what the Government's policies have set out to deliver.


Yes Esther - this is exactly the kind of private enterprise you need - especially when its funded with that pesky money from those rats in the European Union and money gathered from local tax payers.

Incidentally - I wonder how much Peel Holdings paid for Wirral Waters?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:39 am 
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I found it;

Mersey Docks and Harbour Company was acquired by Peel Holdings in September 2005, for £780M.

However within 12 months of the purchase they sold 49% to Rreef Infrastructure, part of Deutsche Asset Management (DAM), the deal was reported to be worth around £750M.

http://www.investegate.co.uk/article.as ... 700313425N

The Wirral waters scheme is to cost in the region of £4.5 Billion.

Not a bad little turnaround - good job they gave new labour pots of money wasn't it.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/79f9dea2-568a ... z2Mf34BooZ

In 2008 this scheme was going to create 47,000 new jobs

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:55 am 
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captain cab wrote:
Esther wrote:
Exactly the kind of private enterprise we need in this area, and what the Government's policies have set out to deliver.


Yes Esther - this is exactly the kind of private enterprise you need - especially when its funded with that pesky money from those rats in the European Union and money gathered from local tax payers.

Incidentally - I wonder how much Peel Holdings paid for Wirral Waters?


I take exception to being quoted for something that Esther McVey said so I changed it for you :wink: The Chinese involvement has been known about for years, we have been awaiting an influx of Chinese businesses and residents for some years now, not that it's anything new they've been here since the 1800s and probably help build the town up in the first place :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:57 am 
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Did you notice how peel started - they bought a mill - closed it down - made it into industrial units. :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:05 am 
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captain cab wrote:
Did you notice how peel started - they bought a mill - closed it down - made it into industrial units. :roll:


I can't say I did tbh, that said I guess it's better than closing it down and leaving it to rot. I'm not a great fan of Peel Holdings but that said they have some great units at very reasonable prices :lol: I guess it's all in the name of progression, nobody likes it and it destroys some rather nice and interesting things, but, it will happen like it or not :-|

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:14 am 
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toots wrote:
captain cab wrote:
Did you notice how peel started - they bought a mill - closed it down - made it into industrial units. :roll:


I can't say I did tbh, that said I guess it's better than closing it down and leaving it to rot. I'm not a great fan of Peel Holdings but that said they have some great units at very reasonable prices :lol: I guess it's all in the name of progression, nobody likes it and it destroys some rather nice and interesting things, but, it will happen like it or not :-|



Its public money given to private multi millionaires - with a hint of political shenanagans.

I sincerely hope the Wirral Cab trade are organised - of course they wont win - but I doubt there'll be a single taxi rank on any of the property - unless of course the taxi trade pay for it. These people have previous with media city and the Trafford centre.

SALFORD MEDIACITYUK TO HAVE NO BLACK CABS http://www.salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=763

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:20 am 
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captain cab wrote:
toots wrote:
captain cab wrote:
Did you notice how peel started - they bought a mill - closed it down - made it into industrial units. :roll:


I can't say I did tbh, that said I guess it's better than closing it down and leaving it to rot. I'm not a great fan of Peel Holdings but that said they have some great units at very reasonable prices :lol: I guess it's all in the name of progression, nobody likes it and it destroys some rather nice and interesting things, but, it will happen like it or not :-|



Its public money given to private multi millionaires - with a hint of political shenanagans.

I sincerely hope the Wirral Cab trade are organised - of course they wont win - but I doubt there'll be a single taxi rank on any of the property - unless of course the taxi trade pay for it. These people have previous with media city and the Trafford centre.

SALFORD MEDIACITYUK TO HAVE NO BLACK CABS http://www.salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=763


I did mention this to some taxi drivers when the plans where on display, but, as you alluded I don't think anybody took any notice and it's not my job to make them because I don't need a rank I just need a telephone :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:17 pm 
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What did you do during the Dock Strike?

13 July 2006
Members of the flexible workforce might find a lesson in the dockers' fight against casualisation.

Near the end of Dockers, shown last Sunday on Channel 4, there is a scene in which Big John, a docker, is found dead in his garden. It is deeply moving. I remembered the freezing day last year when Bill Rooney had a heart attack and died. A week later, Jimmy McUmiskey, who seemed a fit man in his 50s, followed. He was the fourth to die since the Liverpool dockers and their families made their stand: one of the longest and most tenacious in British labour history.

Dockers, the film, was written by Jimmy McGovern and the dockers themselves and their wives. It is fine work that guards the memory and tells the truth from the ground up. Among the characters, I recognised Doreen McNally. Feisty, funny, eloquent wife of Charlie, a Liverpool docker for 29 years, Doreen helped found Women of the Waterfront. I first saw her one Saturday in the autumn of 1996 at the Pier Head, a year after the sacking en masse of 500 men described by Lloyds list as the most productive workforce in Europe. The heroic Liver building reared up behind her to a watery sun; a flock of seagulls rose and fell until a hooter sent them flapping back to the Mersey. "Where is the union," she asked a rally, "where is Bill Morris, where is the TUC?"

It is a question millions of Britons might ask as Tony Blair's ideas about flexible working guarantee a poverty that gives the children of British working people the worst health in western Europe, now on a par with Slovenia and Albania.

This was everything the Liverpool dockers fought against. Since the abolition of the National Dock Labour Scheme in 1989, casualisation had spread through the docks; they believed they were next. In September 1995, they refused to cross a picket line which included their sons and nephews sacked by Torside, a sub- contractor to the main company at the port, Mersey Docks. Within 24 hours, their jobs were advertised. When they tried to return to work, they found the gates locked. It was a trap.

In July 1996, Bernard Bradley, managing director of Torside, revealed to the Commons employment committee that he had wanted to give his men back their jobs almost immediately. Having passed the offer to a regional official of the TGWU, Jack Dempsey, he heard nothing. The Torside dockers were never told about the offer. Had they been told, Mersey Docks would never have had a pretext to get rid of the main workforce.

Almost none of this was reported. Misrepresented as relics from a bygone era, the dockers looked abroad. "It was 6am on a December morning in the fiercest blizzard for 70 years," said Bobby Morton, one of four dockers who set up a picket at the port of Newark in New Jersey just as a container ship had docked from Liverpool. "We didn't know what to expect. When we told the longshoremen coming to work what it was all about,they turned their cars around. We were dancing on the picket line, and we hadn't had a drink."

From a room with one phone, a fax line and a tea urn, they ignited a show of international labour solidarity believed to be without precedent this century. "Pacific Rim trade sputtered to a halt," reported the Los Angeles Times, as dozens of mammoth cargo ships sat idle in their ports as union dockworkers from LA to Seattle backed the dockers of Liverpool. In Japan, 40,000 dockworkers stopped. Ships were turned away from Sydney harbour. In South Africa, dockers closed all ports "in solidarity with the Liverpool dockers who stood by us during the years of apartheid".

Five months after the dockers were sacked, Bill Morris, general secretary of the TGWU, their leader, came to Liverpool. "I am proud to be with you," he told them. "Your struggle is so important that our grandchidren will ask, 'Where were you at the great moment?' and you will either stand up with pride, or you'll hang your head in shame. There can be no backsliding until victory is won... God is on our side."

The union gave the dockers money, though not enough to live on. Morris refused to make the dispute of ficial, claiming the government would invoke Thatcher's law on secondary picketing - a technicality in this case - and sequestrate his funds. Had he launched a legal campaign challenging the injustice of the dockers' dismissal and anti-trade-union laws that are shameful in a democracy, the battle could have been won there and then.

Betrayal is the political theme of Blair's Britain, whose pillars include those paid generously to protect the vulnerable, with or without God. In such surreal times, the dockers' great achievement was to show what was possible. For me, watching their principled fight as they lost almost everything, until the loss of Bill and Jimmy proved too much to bear, was watching Britain at its best.

http://johnpilger.com/articles/what-did ... ck-strike-

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:16 pm 
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Bill Morris there was specimen :evil:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:57 pm 
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I'd say it was after the dockers strike that my father lost his argument with me about the unions. The sad thing about the unions is they did so much good for everybody for so long, but, then they seem to have lost their way somehow and I'm not sure they'll ever get back on track.

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