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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:57 pm 
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Army bases to shut ahead of Germany troop withdrawal

Four Army bases are to close as part of a shake-up to accommodate thousands of troops returning from Germany.

Claro Barracks in North Yorkshire, Howe in Kent, Craigiehall in Edinburgh and Cawdor in Pembrokeshire will be shut.

Parts of Edinburgh's Redford barracks, Forthside in Stirling and Copthorne in Shropshire will also close.

Returning forces will be stationed around seven sites, including Salisbury Plain, Edinburgh and Leuchars, Catterick and Colchester.

The other sites are Aldershot, Stafford and the East Midlands.

There has been a British army presence in Germany for nearly 70 years.

Defence Secretary Philip Hammond said the return of troops from Germany marked the end of an era, and thanked the German government and people for their "material and moral" support.

He also told MPs the Household Cavalry will be moved from its well-known base at Hyde Park Barracks, in central London. He did not say where it would relocate to.

'Fair share'

He said the changes overall would save £240m a year in running costs as soldiers are moved into "clusters" in key locations, and the re-organisation bill would be £1.8bn.

Around £1bn of the funding will go towards 1,900 new houses for service families and accommodation for 7,800 single soldiers. Another £800m will be spent on infrastructure and refurbishment of bases.

BBC defence correspondent Jonathan Beale says the figures are open to debate.

"He says the MoD will spend almost £2bn on the move - much of that money on new service accommodation. To counter that cost he says leaving Germany will save around £240m a year," he said.

"Labour's already asking questions about the speed of the move and whether it's been properly funded."

Mr Hammond confirmed far fewer returning troops than previously thought will be based in Scotland but he insisted Scotland would still have "a little bit more than its fair share" of military personnel based on the size of its population.

The Scottish National Party says the government has reneged on an earlier promise that around 7,000 of the troops leaving Germany would be going to Scotland.

The number of troops in Wales and Northern Ireland will fall by 400, with around 120 soldiers based in Northern Ireland set to lose their jobs during the next 18 months.

Shadow defence secretary Jim Murphy said there would be "real disappointment" over the closures and "historic bonds" were being broken.

Wales Office Minister Stephen Crabb said the closure of the Cawdor Barracks - which Mr Hammond said was no longer "fit for purpose" - was "disappointing". But he welcomed a £100m investment in the St Athan base to which the 14th Signal Regiment (EW) unit is to relocate.

Under the 2010 strategic defence review, the government announced it wanted to withdraw all 20,000 troops in Germany, plus their families, by 2020.

Since then, about 4,000 troops have already moved back to the UK.

Some 70% of the remaining troops will now return by the end of 2015 compared to a previous commitment of half by 2015, with the final 4,300 back by the end of 2019, a year earlier than planned.

The pull-out has been accelerated because there were bigger cuts to the Army than originally planned, saving money which then could be used for relocation.

The government says the changes will provide savings and efficiencies for the Army, and certainty for personnel and their families.

General Sir Peter Wall, Chief of the General Staff, said the plan provides "an excellent springboard for operations overseas".

Former army commander Col Richard Kemp - who spent 10 years in Germany during his military career - told the BBC he was not surprised by the announcement.

"The only reason that British forces have been in Germany... has been because it has been difficult to accommodate them back in the UK and provide proper training facilities.

"It appears the government has found a way of doing that so I think it's entirely reasonable that they should come back now," he said.

But Col Kemp added he was concerned about the potential lack of live firing and training facilities in the UK and the standard of barrack living quarters.

"Money will be saved be moving soldiers back quickly, but that should not be happening at the expense of the welfare, comfort and the facilities available for our troops and their families."

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Army bases: Fewer than expected troops to return to Scotland


The number of Army personnel based in Scotland is to increase by more than 600, the defence secretary has said.

Philip Hammond told MPs that the Craigiehall Camp near Edinburgh would close and Kirknewton would not now be developed as an Army barracks, but Dreghorn Barracks would remain.

Mr Hammond has been outlining where troops withdrawing from Germany will be re-housed in the UK.

Opposition parties said the minister had failed on his troop numbers pledge.

The coalition government had said in 2011 that up to 7,000 personnel would return to Scotland.

Some 16,000 troops and their families will be moved back to the UK over the next five years.

The reorganisation will cost about £2bn and it will see some UK bases expanded, while others will close.

Both Labour and the SNP attacked Mr Hammond's statement.

Shadow Defence Secretary Jim Murphy said the decision to base fewer staff at Leuchars than had been previously been planned would have a political cost.

He added: "Today the government has reneged on its promise. While there is positive news about the return of the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards and the Royal Marines staying in Arbroath, a pledge of thousands of troops to Scotland has become a plan for just hundreds. This is a body blow to Scotland and won't be forgotten.

"Defence in Scotland faces a double danger from government. Neither the Tory government's cuts or Nationalists' plans for independence will do any good for Scottish defence employment, prowess or capability."

The SNP also accused Mr Hammond of breaking promises over the number of Army personal to be based north of the border.

Its defence spokesman Angus Robertson said there would now be fewer troops in Scotland than under plans for independence.

He added:"We welcome the return of our troops from Germany and praise their service and professionalism as well as thanking all those communities in Germany who were so generous in their hosting, but today the Westminster government has u-turned in a most spectacular way.

"It has betrayed communities who were told one thing just two years ago and now find that the MoD has broken its promises.

"The previous Defence Secretary Liam Fox said the return of army personnel was intended to help offset the loss of jobs at RAF bases and increase the defence footprint in Scotland. Today that has all gone up in a cloud of smoke."

'Deep commitment'

Former Liberal Democrat leader, Sir Ming Campbell, whose constituency includes the Leuchars base, accused the government of basing its decisions on political rather than security concerns.

But fellow Lib Dem and Secretary of State for Scotland, Michael Moore, said the UK government's plan reflected the reality of the changing shape of the Army.

He added: "We are seeing £100m of investment in military infrastructure and hundreds of additional soldiers coming to Scottish Army bases, bringing the total number to 4,000.

"It shows a deep commitment to Scotland as an integral part of our country's defence and should be welcomed."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-21673536

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:20 pm 
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Should this not be in the politics section??


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:28 pm 
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United Taxis 11 wrote:
Should this not be in the politics section??


We'll as a lot of ex squaddies end up driving cabs, maybe not.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:29 pm 
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United Taxis 11 wrote:
Should this not be in the politics section??



Yes :oops:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:40 pm 
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Why has Scotland been betrayed? Since the original decision the SNP have secured the reforendum vote and part of their proporganda is to get rid of the British army from Scotland. This will help their cause.
5300 more for us here though.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:49 pm 
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grandad wrote:
Why has Scotland been betrayed? Since the original decision the SNP have secured the reforendum vote and part of their proporganda is to get rid of the British army from Scotland. This will help their cause.
5300 more for us here though.


It's only betrayal if you were stupid enough to actually believed it in the first place. Tories of any shade cannot be trusted.

BTW, your spelling is a bit off tonight. You been on the sherry?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:50 pm 
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grandad wrote:
5300 more for us here though.


Only till the next tranche of redundancies.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:54 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
grandad wrote:
5300 more for us here though.


Only till the next tranche of redundancies.

Oops it's 5800. The base that they will be going to will require more housing to accomodate them all.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:54 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
BTW, your spelling is a bit off tonight. You been on the sherry?

No, I've just woken up.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:48 am 
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grandad wrote:
No, I've just woken up.


those nap times granddad :lol:

The UK govt has seriously betrayed the armed forces - 30 years ago we sent 25,000 troops to the falklands, after the UK govt basically cut defence spending to almost invite the argies to invade - Sandy Woodward wrote at the time in his book - that it was almost as if the Argentinian's advised John Nott about our cuts.

We couldn't send 25,000 troops now - in fact due to their stupidity we haven't got an aircraft carrier - we borrow one from france - of course if we leave the EU I wonder if France will let us borrow then? I aint seen that advertised by UKIP and the anti Euro idiots out there.

The Scottish regiments are amongst the best in the British Army - very proud histories - the UK govt has consistently betrayed their service and traditions - I served as a boy alongside Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders - Royal Scots - KOSB's - Black Watch - RHF and suchlike, they were pretty sh*t at cricket. The UK government conspired to reduce our much admired regimental system into a absolute joke.

Yet the army serves and say's nothing.

The bases in this country are vital - whilst they bail out corrupt and thieving banks - they take the p*ss out of those who serve us.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:42 am 
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Captain Cab wrote:
of course if we leave the EU I wonder if France will let us borrow then? I aint seen that advertised by UKIP and the anti Euro idiots out there.


We'll still be part of NATO so I don't see why not.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:57 am 
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toots wrote:
Captain Cab wrote:
of course if we leave the EU I wonder if France will let us borrow then? I aint seen that advertised by UKIP and the anti Euro idiots out there.


We'll still be part of NATO so I don't see why not.

The French may not approve of the use you want it for, or they might need it to blow the [edited by admin] out of someone else at the time.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:23 am 
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They want Independence, they'll need a new Army to protect their Buckfast stocks which is made in the UK. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:39 am 
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Nidge2 wrote:
They want Independence, they'll need a new Army to protect their Buckfast stocks which is made in the UK. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


If we need to build an army from scratch, we can get plenty of trained personnel from where you lot left them.

The dole queue.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:23 am 
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gusmac wrote:
Nidge2 wrote:
They want Independence, they'll need a new Army to protect their Buckfast stocks which is made in the UK. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


If we need to build an army from scratch, we can get plenty of trained personnel from where you lot left them.

The dole queue.

You keep telling us that you don't need an army though. :?

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