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SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE - YES!
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Author:  handyman [ Sat Aug 09, 2014 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE - YES!

I would urge all Yes supporters here to remember to display a Yes sticker on their taxis to show their support, and remind the general public to make the right decision for Scotland's future - remember this will affect our children and our grandchildren. To pass up this great opportunity would be a collosal mistake, and a gigantic step backwards. The Union has never been good for Scotland and its time is now over.

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Author:  grandad [ Sat Aug 09, 2014 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE - YES!

Haven't you left the trade yet?

Author:  gusmac [ Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE - YES!

Quote:
Dear Voters of Scotland

As a Yorkshireman who currently resides outside of Scotland I feel like a bit of an outsider looking in on the independence debate, but I have my opinions and I'd like to share some of them with you.

I'm strongly in favour of greater political autonomy as a general principle, so I'm strongly in favour of Scottish independence on the grounds that the people of Scotland deserve a government that is much more responsive to their wishes than the Westminster establishment have proven themselves to be.

It has been fascinating to see the various ways in which the independence debate has been framed by the different sides. The political establishment, supported by the vast majority of the mainstream media, relentlessly push the overwhelmingly negative argument against independence, whilst the much more hopeful pro-independence perspective is provided by an impressive array of community groups, independent websites and ordinary people.

One of the most interesting tactics used by the anti-independence camp has been the emotive argument that the Scottish people would be tearing apart "the bond of citizenship" that you share with the English should you vote for independence. The most high profile example of this emotive "bond of citizenship" argument was the pleading letter from some 200 mainly English celebrities that appeared in the press in August 2014. The letter was signed by such luminaries as Cilla Black, Helena Bonham Carter, Simon Cowell, Richard Dawkins, Tracey Emin, Max Hastings, Ross Kemp, Rod Little, Peter Oborne, Sting, Alan Sugar and Ray Winstone.

That these celebrities would even consider basing their argument on an appeal to some abstract "bond of citizenship" just goes to show how desperately out of touch they have become with the everyday realities that so many normal folk endure. The fact that these celebrities range between comfortably well off and ludicrously rich provides some explanation of how they have completely missed the bigger picture in the Scottish independence debate.

The sheer number of establishment titles on this list (lords, sirs, dames, baronesses) shows that this is a bunch of people who are the beneficiaries of a system which keeps millions of people in Scotland, Wales and neglected areas of England in abject, soul destroying poverty. These people are not pleading with you to vote against Scottish independence because they feel it is in the best interests of the tens of thousands of Scottish kids growing up in such poverty that they have to go hungry on a regular basis (because it clearly isn't) they're pleading with you because they don't want to lose some abstract and inedible personal "bond of citizenship".

The referendum on independence isn't an opportunity to break some abstract "bond of citizenship" with the people of England as they like to frame it, it's an opportunity for the people of Scotland to stand up and free themselves from the misrule of the Westminster establishment. This mottly bunch of celebrities are incapable of understanding why this referendum is such a great opportunity for the Scottish people because they are part of the wealthy minority who have done pretty damn well out of the right-wing neoliberal economic system favoured by the Westminster establishment ever since 1979, which rewards wealth, punishes poverty and constantly builds ever more social inequality into the system.

I would like to present an alternative view from an ordinary English person, to show that we're not all as removed from reality as the English celebrities who put their personal abstract sense of shared citizenship above the very real needs of ordinary Scottish people.

Take the North East of England (England's poorest region) as an example. A recent study found that for every £1 spent per head of population on public transport in the North East, London gets £24 per head of population! This grotesque disparity in infrastructure spending between London and the North is just another way in which ever larger shares of the wealth are transferred down south. If Scottish independence means that a bit more of the wealth of the British isles is spread around a bit more fairly (instead of being siphoned off down to London), countless ordinary people will benefit from it. If only the North East of England had a bit more regional autonomy, perhaps things could be better and fairer for them too.

Another example can be seen in my home region of Yorkshire. If we'd had greater autonomy from Westminster, then perhaps our local representatives might have fought to protect our vital industries (steel, coal, fishing, transport), rather than letting the Westminster establishment deliberately ruin our industries, jobs and communities as part of their insane ideological experiment in turning the UK economy into a supposed "post-industrial society" built around the city of London financial sector (and we all know how that absurd fantasy turned out).

There are many in England who have seen our areas as badly misruled by the Westminster establishment as the Scottish have, the only difference being that you now have an opportunity to put this terrible misrule to an end for yourselves, but we must keep on fighting to achieve greater autonomy for ourselves.

I, and many other English people, fully understand what it is like to see your own area left to poverty and ruin whilst the lion's share of the national wealth is diverted to London and the South East. Your problem is not with the English people at all, in fact you share exactly the same problem as many millions of English people; the problem of being ruled over from London by the Westminster establishment.
One of the strongest bonds between the people of Scotland, and ordinary people like myself from Northern England is that we understand the devastating consequences of having our local economies hopelessly mismanaged by the Westminster establishment. The fact is that this bond of mutual empathy is not one that can be broken should the people of Scotland take this wonderful opportunity to put Westminster misrule to an end.

These wealthy celebrities may imagine that they can sway you with their emotive argument about their loss of this abstract bond of citizenship, but there are many English people who understand that this is about something much more important. You have an opportunity to free yourselves from Westminster misrule and to set about trying to build yourselves a better, fairer nation with a smaller, more responsive government.

I won't feel any loss at all if you guys decide to free yourselves from Westminster misrule, I'll celebrate with a drink, wish you all the best, and hope that Scottish independence acts as a catalyst for greater regional autonomy for the remaining countries and regions that must remain part of the United Kingdom.

On the other hand, I'd feel an immense sense of loss if you guys turn down this wonderful opportunity to free yourselves from Westminster misrule out of some misguided loyalty to the sense of "Britishness" that people like Simon Cowell, Tracey Emin, Mick Jagger, Ross Kemp, Alan Sugar and Ray Winstone base their vapid anti-independence arguments upon.

All the best

Thomas G. Clark

Author:  bloodnock [ Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE - YES!

Desperation setting in ?... :wink:

Author:  bloodnock [ Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE - YES!

Quote:
The Union has never been good for Scotland and its time is now over


How would anyone know as there is nothing to compare it with, Britain and the United Kingdom has not done to badly for itself over the years.

Would you rather go back to Hacking each other to death on some dowie heather clad hillside like so often happened pre-Union just because the Clan McFuff next door stole yer prize Tup ?

Author:  gusmac [ Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE - YES!

bloodnock wrote:
Would you rather go back to Hacking each other to death on some dowie heather clad hillside like so often happened pre-Union just because the Clan McFuff next door stole yer prize Tup ?


Most of Europe manages just fine without subjudating themselves to the country next door. Why do you think we are different?

Author:  gusmac [ Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE - YES!

Quote:
Britain and the United Kingdom has not done to badly for itself over the years.


Are you kidding :lol:

Author:  bloodnock [ Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE - YES!

gusmac wrote:
Quote:
Britain and the United Kingdom has not done to badly for itself over the years.


Are you kidding :lol:


No..just look around, ask yourself why half the world and it's dog want's to live here.

Wee Eck is more about bettering Wee Eck's lot as he is about bettering Tam, Jock or Harry's.

The mans a control freak..God forbid you ever get him as President of Scotonia some day, the guy even admires Putin.

Author:  gusmac [ Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE - YES!

bloodnock wrote:
gusmac wrote:
Quote:
Britain and the United Kingdom has not done to badly for itself over the years.


Are you kidding :lol:


No..just look around, ask yourself why half the world and it's dog want's to live here.

Wee Eck is more about bettering Wee Eck's lot as he is about bettering Tam, Jock or Harry's.

The mans a control freak..God forbid you ever get him as President of Scotonia some day, the guy even admires Putin.


Perhaps they like our foodbanks #-o

Author:  wannabeeahack [ Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE - YES!

Please, Scotland.......fck off ASAP....lol

Author:  roythebus [ Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE - YES!

gusmac wrote:
bloodnock wrote:
Would you rather go back to Hacking each other to death on some dowie heather clad hillside like so often happened pre-Union just because the Clan McFuff next door stole yer prize Tup ?


Most of Europe manages just fine without subjudating themselves to the country next door. Why do you think we are different?
Try telling that to the Belgians, still arguing over what language to use on what day of the week; maybe that's why most of them also speak English.

That reminds me, are the Scots going to abandon using English as well?

Author:  grandad [ Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE - YES!

roythebus wrote:
are the Scots going to abandon using English as well?

:shock: They speak English?? :shock:

Author:  wannabeeahack [ Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE - YES!

gusmac wrote:
Most of Europe manages just fine without subjudating themselves to the country next door. Why do you think we are different?


You wouldnt say that if Germany was next door

Author:  Cabby John 1 [ Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE - YES!

Quote:
the guy even admires Putin.


Oh come on! I like Putin :roll: At least you know where you are with him :shock:


I have said it before - I do not want the Scots to go.....but I hope that they do take the chance of a lifetime that would reshape the whole of British corrupt politics.

British politics has for the last 26+ governments run at a National deficit and will eventually bankrupt the nation - put it this way......If any of you guys/girls were married to a spenderholic who year on year, threatened to derail everything you worked for possibly throwing you into poverty on a big scale - would you keep that format ?

Things have to change - the Scots changed the Poll tax....and a big thank you for that =D> =D> =D> and now they can change history for themselves and us.

They worry about "The Currency" they worry about "The EEC".........quite frankly the currency will be sorted as every Nation throughout the world has one with the valuation being not a lot different than today. RE the EEC I would be gone in a shot - it is nothing more than an Ole boys/girls club, designed for the elite and 40 years on is in a worse financial state than ever. The proof of the pudding is in the fact that other Nations (not the actual people) are still wanting to join!! Who in reality would wish to join a debt ridden, basically bankrupt company......because that is what we are talking about.

I would vote to get away from everything to do do with Brussels, and most importantly the chance to be rid a nation up to its eyes in debt and getting worse........corruption all around on a gigantic scale.........do not be part of it - Salmond can always go at a later date.

The English government and the Welsh assembly will be absolutely bricking it.........for fear of what it will do to them. The thought of what it means to you and I is not even on the radar - But! It can be.

Put your kilts on, beat the drums, be nationalistic, bring back Brave Heart........be a Scot and be proud, do the right thing.........give Westminster the finger and save the nations.

Author:  handyman [ Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE - YES!

Well it seems like a better offer that is on the table than that coming from London, BY A LONG WAY.

And it seems that for all too many Scots it doesn't matter how good independence will be - they'd still vote against it - that is sad. That is entrenched pessimism.

Read the FACTS not the hearsay -

Standard & Poors Credit Rating Agency -
"Even excluding North Sea output and calculating per capita GDP only by looking at onshore income, Scotland would qualify for our highest economic assessment"

Financial Times - 2 Feb 2014
"Assuming a geographical allocation of North Sea oil and gas production, the Scottish economy would rank among the top 50 in the world by size of GDP and would be relatively wealthy, richer than the rest of the UK, and in the top 20 countries globally in terms of GDP per head."

Fiscal Commission Working Group Report -
"By international standards Scotland is a wealthy and productive country. There is no doubt that Scotland has the potential to be a successful independent nation."

- Sir George Mathewson, former Chief Executive of the Royal Bank of Scotland and present economic advisor to Yes Campaign, (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ecd409fc-1b37 ... z39zjelYP8 - 4 Aug 2014).
"Independence will bring new opportunities for Scotland’s financial sector – which is one of the country’s strengths, though it is neglected by the Westminster government and its London-centric policy. Scotland can support and expand the financial services sector using the powers of independence to attract new businesses and new entrants to the market. It will build on successes such as Virgin Money and Tesco Bank, both of which have operations in Scotland. A competitive and efficient tax system would help Scotland compete with other European financial capitals. Independence would enable Scotland to invest more in skills, and to attract and retain more top talent, especially in the growth area of asset management."
"Even less convincing is the Westminster line on a currency union. The No campaign, abetted by the British government, claims that an independent Scotland could not continue in a sterling currency union because Scotland would have independent financial institutions lying beyond the reach of regulators in London. But at the same time they argue that these financial institutions would relocate to London in the event of independence, leaving Scotland poorer. They cannot have it both ways. This is “bluff and bluster”, as Alex Salmond, first minister of Scotland, has said. Even a senior UK minister has conceded in private that “of course there will be a currency union”, according to newspaper reports."

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