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EU - Remain or Leave?
Remain in the EU 28%  28%  [ 12 ]
Leave the EU 72%  72%  [ 31 ]
Total votes : 43
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:13 am 
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Another way of looking at this referendum could be this........

I do not believe that even if the "outs win" that we will be allowed to walk away - or for that matter will the likes of DC want to. Imo this is very much an expensive charade being conducted by DC and others whereby they cannot lose!

If DC loses the vote he can then go back to the EU with a very strong hand to renegotiate much better terms - the EU must be absolutely bricking it that we might leave, as it will throw their finances into chaos. On the back of an out vote, we could remain on our terms which would probably mean a smaller contribution than the £350 mil and less interference from Brussels. We would probably have to take in a number of immigrants - but not an open door policy.

On the other hand if the "Ins" win - he will be able to blame the general public when the sh!t hits the fan when it does penultimateley collapse, as it will.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:21 pm 
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grandad wrote:
MR T wrote:
grandad wrote:
Just as a small example.
If we leave the EU, what will the price of a pint of milk cost? Will our farmers get paid any more money for their milk than they get at the moment? Will the price in the supermarket go up, go down or stay the same?

:shock: Do you think there will be a EU milk mountain.. :lol:

I think it would be called a lake if there were one.
I am just interested to hear what people think would happen to the price of milk as an example. At the moment, as I understand it, a lotof our milk comes from the EU under the free trade agreement. Will that still be the case if we leave? If it isn't, will the milk supplied by our own farmers be worth more to these farmers thus pushing the price up? Will the supermarkets who sell the majority of the milk in this country be forced to pay more for the milk or will they still force the price to be what they want it to be?
I haven't a clue what the outcome will be but others may have a view worth listening to.


That's why I shop at the CoOp for milk, they use English farmers and the price is £1.45 for 4 pints. The only companies that are driving the price of milk down are ASDA, Tesco and Morrison's, they are ripping farmers off.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:45 pm 
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From an NHS worker.
The EU vote:
I've taken a lot of time to read both arguments and my only genuine conclusion is this: both sides will lie and tell you what you want to hear to win this thing.
But there is one thing I know, and that's the NHS. I've worked in the NHS for 15 glorious years. I am proud to work in it and I think it is amazing. I'm not blind to see that it has its flaws, but with re: to the EU, it is not Brussels or a supposed uncontrollable influx of migrants that is hampering the NHS - I have never spent a Sunday on RAU (admission ward) dealing with a sudden refugee crisis. The NHS is currently underfunded by a group of politicians that want it to fail so they can sell it off for their own profit. And as far as I can tell these are the guys running the VOTE LEAVE campaign.
They want no EU counter measure to their plan to sell off the NHS. And for that reason, I shall be voting REMAIN.
The EU is not perfect, but I'd rather be at the table discussing ways to improve it than taking my ball and going home in a sulk.
And in my opinion nothing is more important than the NHS and health in general. And for those considering the LEAVE vote, I have 2 questions; when you're on holiday in Europe, how much do you think your health insurance will be?? And further more, when the NHS has been disbanded and you or a loved one is diagnosed with a highly curable form of leukemia, where are you going to find £250,000 to pay for the cure? At the moment that's still free. Be careful what you wish for.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:48 pm 
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grandad wrote:
MR T wrote:
grandad wrote:
Just as a small example.
If we leave the EU, what will the price of a pint of milk cost? Will our farmers get paid any more money for their milk than they get at the moment? Will the price in the supermarket go up, go down or stay the same?

:shock: Do you think there will be a EU milk mountain.. :lol:

I think it would be called a lake if there were one.
I am just interested to hear what people think would happen to the price of milk as an example. At the moment, as I understand it, a lotof our milk comes from the EU under the free trade agreement. Will that still be the case if we leave? If it isn't, will the milk supplied by our own farmers be worth more to these farmers thus pushing the price up? Will the supermarkets who sell the majority of the milk in this country be forced to pay more for the milk or will they still force the price to be what they want it to be?
I haven't a clue what the outcome will be but others may have a view worth listening to.


We used to have a system where the farmers used to sell their milk to the Milk Marketing Board, thus ensuring they got a fair price, and retailers used to purchase from them, but that was done away with when we entered the Common Market as it was then, but I imagine could be reinstated. Farming itself has evolved tremendously since then.

Why you would want to allow foreign murderers and rapists to walk the streets of this country is beyond me. Why you are happy that the EU constantly overrules our English laws and stops us from deporting these people is also beyond me. I have no problem with genuine asylum seekers coming here, but I do have a problem with a mass influx of economic migrants coming here expecting to be housed, fed and watered and paid benefits, and then having to pay benefits to their relatives in other countries, and at the same time, creating their own ethnic communities which exclude the British people, and then pay £350m per week for the privilege.

It's about time we took back control of our own country. There is nothing to stop this country in the future allowing people in, in a controlled way, to train for specific jobs, and as for thinking that people who buy from us will stop, that certainly isn't the way that business works. If you don't buy or sell your products you will cease to exist, whichever side of the Channel you are on.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:49 pm 
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Nidge2 wrote:
grandad wrote:

I am just interested to hear what people think would happen to the price of milk as an example. At the moment, as I understand it, a lotof our milk comes from the EU under the free trade agreement. Will that still be the case if we leave? If it isn't, will the milk supplied by our own farmers be worth more to these farmers thus pushing the price up? Will the supermarkets who sell the majority of the milk in this country be forced to pay more for the milk or will they still force the price to be what they want it to be?
I haven't a clue what the outcome will be but others may have a view worth listening to.


That's why I shop at the CoOp for milk, they use English farmers and the price is £1.45 for 4 pints. The only companies that are driving the price of milk down are ASDA, Tesco and Morrison's, they are ripping farmers off.

Do you think that this would change if we are out of the EU? Do you think all supermarkets would have to charge the same price as the CO-OP for their milk? Would this also go the same for other farm products?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:54 pm 
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MR T wrote:

We used to have a system where the farmers used to sell their milk to the Milk Marketing Board, thus ensuring they got a fair price, and retailers used to purchase from them, but that was done away with when we entered the Common Market as it was then, but I imagine could be reinstated. Farming itself has evolved tremendously since then.


Rubbish Mr T.

The Milk Marketing Board was a producer-run product marketing board,[1] established by statute in 1933[2] to control milk production and distribution in the United Kingdom. It functioned as buyer of last resort in the British milk market, thereby guaranteeing a minimum price for milk producers. It also participated in the development of milk products, introducing 'Lymeswold cheese.'

Advertising[edit]
See also: Humphreys (Unigate)
From the 1950s onwards there were several memorable advertising campaigns by the Milk Marketing Board. Slogans included "full of natural goodness", "is your man getting enough?", "milk's gotta lotta bottle" (written by the advertising executive Rod Allen), and "drinka pinta milka day". In the 1980s, they ran the "Accrington Stanley, Who Are They?" advert which was widely praised.

The campaigns were largely on ITV television, but were also printed on the returnable milk bottles delivered by milkmen.

The Milk Marketing Board sponsored the Milk Race Tour of Britain cycle race from 1958-1993, at 35 years making it the longest cycle sponsorship in the UK ever.

The Milk Marketing Board also sponsored the Football League Cup from 1981-1986, renaming it the Milk Cup.

Dissolution[edit]
The Board's responsibilities effectively ended, save for residual functions, in 1994 with deregulation of the British milk market following the Agriculture Act 1993. Its former processing division, Dairy Crest, survives to this day as an independent company.

The Milk Marketing Board was finally dissolved in 2002. The Scottish Milk Marketing Board was similarly dissolved in 2003. The Milk Marketing Forum acts as a spiritual successor.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:58 pm 
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I knew you would fall for that, but still can't understand why the price of milk is the most important thing in your life!

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:17 pm 
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grandad wrote:
MR T wrote:

We used to have a system where the farmers used to sell their milk to the Milk Marketing Board, thus ensuring they got a fair price, and retailers used to purchase from them, but that was done away with when we entered the Common Market as it was then, but I imagine could be reinstated. Farming itself has evolved tremendously since then.


Rubbish Mr T.

The Milk Marketing Board was a producer-run product marketing board,[1] established by statute in 1933[2] to control milk production and distribution in the United Kingdom. It functioned as buyer of last resort in the British milk market, thereby guaranteeing a minimum price for milk producers. It also participated in the development of milk products, introducing 'Lymeswold cheese.'

Advertising[edit]
See also: Humphreys (Unigate)
From the 1950s onwards there were several memorable advertising campaigns by the Milk Marketing Board. Slogans included "full of natural goodness", "is your man getting enough?", "milk's gotta lotta bottle" (written by the advertising executive Rod Allen), and "drinka pinta milka day". In the 1980s, they ran the "Accrington Stanley, Who Are They?" advert which was widely praised.

The campaigns were largely on ITV television, but were also printed on the returnable milk bottles delivered by milkmen.

The Milk Marketing Board sponsored the Milk Race Tour of Britain cycle race from 1958-1993, at 35 years making it the longest cycle sponsorship in the UK ever.

The Milk Marketing Board also sponsored the Football League Cup from 1981-1986, renaming it the Milk Cup.

Dissolution[edit]
The Board's responsibilities effectively ended, save for residual functions, in 1994 with deregulation of the British milk market following the Agriculture Act 1993. Its former processing division, Dairy Crest, survives to this day as an independent company.

The Milk Marketing Board was finally dissolved in 2002. The Scottish Milk Marketing Board was similarly dissolved in 2003. The Milk Marketing Forum acts as a spiritual successor.




https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ry-farmers

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:41 pm 
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MR T wrote:
I knew you would fall for that, but still can't understand why the price of milk is the most important thing in your life!

The price of milk is not important. I was using it as an example of something simple that will affect everyone. It would seem that no one knows what will happen to the price of milk, let alone the important issues.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:02 pm 
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grandad wrote:
MR T wrote:
I knew you would fall for that, but still can't understand why the price of milk is the most important thing in your life!

The price of milk is not important. I was using it as an example of something simple that will affect everyone. It would seem that no one knows what will happen to the price of milk, let alone the important issues.



Many milk farmers have moved on to better things like selling milk direct from the farm and making more money, one farmer round here has opened an Ice Cream Parlour and is dong very well indeed.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:03 pm 
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grandad wrote:
From an NHS worker.
The EU vote:
I've taken a lot of time to read both arguments and my only genuine conclusion is this: both sides will lie and tell you what you want to hear to win this thing.
But there is one thing I know, and that's the NHS. I've worked in the NHS for 15 glorious years. I am proud to work in it and I think it is amazing. I'm not blind to see that it has its flaws, but with re: to the EU, it is not Brussels or a supposed uncontrollable influx of migrants that is hampering the NHS - I have never spent a Sunday on RAU (admission ward) dealing with a sudden refugee crisis. The NHS is currently underfunded by a group of politicians that want it to fail so they can sell it off for their own profit. And as far as I can tell these are the guys running the VOTE LEAVE campaign.
They want no EU counter measure to their plan to sell off the NHS. And for that reason, I shall be voting REMAIN.
The EU is not perfect, but I'd rather be at the table discussing ways to improve it than taking my ball and going home in a sulk.
And in my opinion nothing is more important than the NHS and health in general. And for those considering the LEAVE vote, I have 2 questions; when you're on holiday in Europe, how much do you think your health insurance will be?? And further more, when the NHS has been disbanded and you or a loved one is diagnosed with a highly curable form of leukemia, where are you going to find £250,000 to pay for the cure? At the moment that's still free. Be careful what you wish for.


From an MP you mean?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:07 pm 
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grandad wrote:
Just as a small example.
If we leave the EU, what will the price of a pint of milk cost? Will our farmers get paid any more money for their milk than they get at the moment? Will the price in the supermarket go up, go down or stay the same?

Couldn't care less.

It will be my decision to buy the expensive milk or not as the case may be, in a similar way as our government elected by our people will be able to set all our laws, not just some of them.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:11 pm 
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If you offered total control of laws to the people of China, or Saudi Arabia or any other dictatorship, and they could have the freedom to elect people to be in control of all their laws, would they say no because it might put the price of milk up.

I very much doubt it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:57 pm 
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Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata,the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria.
His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc.,
in the UK.
The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK.
Name me one major technology company still running in the UK,., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.
Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.
Vote Leave tomorrow before we are annihilated.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:14 pm 
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So you want to stay....

"European Commission president warns there will be no further renegotiation with Brussels"

Think again...your gonna get kicked hard by the EU as punishment if you stay.

Leave is the only sane option.


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