Taxi Driver Online

Gus, why is it ppl like yourself have this itch in your pants that you're being denied something, as Toot's said if you were in any other line of business you'd still face the costs or simply the opportunity to be profitable wouldn't be there, your arguement is like me complaining that I didn't get a ticket for a sold out Rolling Stones gig and that I should be allowed in anyway because I wanted to see them, what you fail to see is that if you can come in, I can come in and so can old Tom Cobbly an all.

Using your argument, it's ok for a ticket tout to buy up all the tickets and charge you 50 times what they paid for 1. Should they be allowed to tout every seat in this way?

The law allows the plate barons to operate. What they do is perfectly legal.
Restricted taxi numbers and unfettered access by any "old Tom Cobbly" to a drivers badge lets them thrive. There are no shortage of desperados in this game who will sleep in their cabs and work every hour of the day and night, to pay the rentals and make a living.
If you are an owner driver, you are the one who has to compete with these guys to make a quid.

You want one driver, one plate. What you want is not something any council can give. It needs a change in the law, a change which is no where near ever happening. Restrict the number of cabs without changing the law and you play right into the barons' hands.

Limit the drivers and you limit the competition, without providing the barons with an excess of hirers and a big cut of the very finite pot.

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http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/

It's an expensive choice but have it your way. They may not be paying for the rent of a vehicle, but, they will be paying for the rent of a set on a system cos they just won't make the money otherwise unless they work all the hours god sends to do it

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

If only it was that easy, but see how easy Ali T plays his local council for a plate, imagine there were good standard rules, then you'll see the pass me for a bung and still have 200% too many mouths to feed.

Bottom line is if you restrict there becomes a cost to join

De-reg and you end up Africanised, i.e lots of starving ppl fighting for the last rodent in the desert to eat.

Honestly Gus, de-reg opens the Baron doors, it doesn't shut them.

Where?

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IDFIMH

There's plenty of them in the area I work which is as we know a de-limited area

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

Its the usual sh*te from people who are perhaps a little sad.

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

So some people run a fleet of vehicles and rent them out, big deal, that's the way of the rest of the world - just because someone runs a bigger business than you hardly makes it a crime.

There's a difference between that and the blatant profiteering of restricted numbers.

What's the rental/resale value of a PH plate? Jack.

I hire a car from a mega-baron called Black Horse, and I believe thousands are in a similar position.

But I just didn't have the capital to buy a decent motor, so to that extent I'm grateful to them.

So barons are ok now then?

Sadly, though many choose to disagree, toots has a point, as per the example she gives of barons in her own delimited LA. People who, in recent times, could not afford, or were unable get a loan to "purchase" a licence (plus say, a 5-10 year old vehicle, as was often the case) in a limited area, are usually unable to afford a new WAV and end up simply paying rent for radio & vehicle to the only people who can afford a new "fleet" under delimitation....your friend Mr T. Baron again.

Interestingly, as regards "licence premium costs", the majority of these values in restricted councils have been fairly static in recent years (assuming the lists included on this very website to be correct) and even if we were to add the cost of a 5 year old vehicle onto it, were still considerably lower than having to purchase a new purpose built WAV to obtain a licence after delimitation (should this be made a requirement). Also, providing the LA's enforcement team ensure a high standard of vehicle maintenance, there should be no problem with running a "non new vehicle".

However, let's not get bogged down with these old arguments again. As Doom alluded to in another forum recently, people on either side of the delimitation argument, are pretty much unwilling to change their stance, so why waste our breath....or typing fingers. However, to move on....




So....if a change in the law were possible (and we could possibly go back in time!), a limit/restriction would be OK, providing it was one driver, one plate??!!

Trouble is....the horse has bolted. Going back in time is not an option....but neither should allowing a free for all that would destroy the trade.


Strangely enough gusmac, there are hackney owner/drivers...within restricted areas...that would also love there to be "one driver, one plate", being that as more cabs have become double shifted through the years, earning a living has become harder. Whilst some hacks, arguably unfairly, may also want a slice of the PH market, many only work the ranks and some might, surprisingly, even like hacks not to be on a radio circuit at all, so that unmet demand surveys would not be distorted in any way and an accurate number of cabs needed would be maintained, lessening the threat of delimitation. And yes...this would in turn, protect their "investment"...but let's not forget, most licence holders will have borrowed or put their savings into "buying" a licence...not many, in overall terms, got a freebie.

They don't expect this investment to rise, but equally they don't expect the value to be wiped out, just to pacify people who pretend they are fighting for the "little guy", but simply want something for nothing themselves.

People seem to be using "delimitation arguments" as a cure for taxi barons...or poor souls unable to afford a licence...or foreigners entering the trade...etc etc etc, when far from being a panacaea for the taxi trade's ills, there is evidence all over the country that, at best, it simply allows one set of problems to mutate into a different set of at least equal proportions.

There is no doubt that both PH and hacks have some legitimate reasons to complain. It is also the case that the job has more than its share of a$$holes. BUT...the job's f****d unless a better solution than delimitting, at least in the formats we've seen, is found. I'd like to believe that the trade is sensible enough to see the dangers of not working together to find answers, or even compromises...but sadly, it seems nigh on impossible.



So...addressing your first point, what's the difference between an owner driver, who possibly rents to one other person occasionally and a baron then? Just a bigger business? Furthermore, if it's OK for someone to rent from a PH baron, then it should it not be OK for a hack baron too?

Also, please can you show actual evidence/statistics of the prevalence of this "blatant profiteering" you mention. Whilst I have no doubt that there are indeed some scum of the earth taxi barons, I have grave concerns that most of the suffering after delimitation would actually be caused to owner/drivers and families. How would...or even should...these people be protected?

Finally, the resale value. I would agree that laws should have been in place from day one to restrict sales between individuals, number of licences owned by an individual etc...but they weren't. Demolishing the trade completely, is not the answer.

Let's face facts. "Freebie" plates are not commonplace (possibly excluding southampton ). What is more likely, is that person A (a sole trader), might buy a licence from person B for say, £20k and in todays uncertain world, decides to sell up 5 years later (these days, they'd probably be lucky to see any gain at all). So anyway, let's say they sell to person C for £20k, so no profit, but probably having paid interest on a loan during that time, so they may actually have lost. In any event £20k-£20k = 0, which is the same nett total profit as your PH plate.

When people stop using excuses and start showing glowing examples and success stories of deregulation, with evidence and significant improvement, then fair enough....but there is far more evidence to the contrary.

As I've stated before, the number of hackney licences should be determined by the need of the customer (rank and hail), not the needs of existing, or "wannabe" drivers. This should then be combined, at a secondary level, but nonetheless very important one, that sufficient rank space for the licences issued should be provided.

But, as I ponder hitting the delete button, I ask what's the point of falling into the trap of debating this over and over again . The people, on all sides of the debate it must be said, are like listening to the dogs in Battersea dogs home. They all just bark louder and louder at each other to get their message over, thinking they are proving a point, when in reality, it's pointless.

I just gotta see the response FF is gonna trash that lot with, on second thoughts, why don't we all chip in 10k each for FF, and another 10K for Sussex so they can either buy a plate or prefferably F-off out of the trade and start bugging someone elses industry for free entry.

BTW, that was a superb post Spart's.

Not as good as mine though, Doomser, because I can tell when you're getting annoyed

Anyway, no time to "spout" any more tonight, more later

Thanks...but it's just as well that I don't expect it to make a blind bit of difference though.





Well, it's a very limited first step...but we all seem to have found a point of agreement at last. Bye for now.

The fact that there are plenty of them means there is plenty of choice for drivers to choose from.

It's choice that's the issue.

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IDFIMH

Yeah I can see that but with choice comes responsibility and nobody appears to want the responsibility of the chaos this choice causes. It surely cannot be good to leave it as a free for all

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!