Taxi Driver Online

Having read the Cab Trade News article, I would have to agree with their view of the OFT's report as being 'superficial and naive', but as usual CTN's own analysis could perhaps be described as superficial and self-serving.

I was having a read of the de-limitation case studies annex last night, for example, and some of the results are pretty ambiguous, to say the least.

Apart from the Sheffield and Cambridge examples, the analyisis of the others towns and cities is hardly worth bothering about - a few lightweight and superficial points that are just the usual fair that we here everywhere and is usually just one-sided, selve-serving propoganda.

For example, in re-restricted areas, after things had settled down after de-limitation, they point out that 'the trade' wanted numbers re-limited - well, they would, wouldn't they - everyone who had wanted a plate at that time had gotten one, and then wanted the door closed again, and at that point all plate holders have a common interest.

It's a pity the OFT and Halcrow didn't consider simple economic concepts such as 'regulatory capture' (ie the regulator acts only in the interests of the regulated, and the interests of anyone else is not considered), but then again that might have called into question the suitability of LAs to license taxis, which would never do!!

Then we have the more in-depth analyses from Sheffield and Cambridge.

The Cambridge figures show that taxi usage was HALF that when they previously surveyed before de-limitation, and this was probably because the later survey was undertaken out of term time, thus rendering it completely pointless as a comparision in a student-oriented city such as Cambridge.

The we have the Sheffield figures which show more passengers waiting than before de-limitation, which Halcrow put down to more path work.

But as usual both fail to consider driver numbers, and as we all know much of the growth in cab numbers is probably due to HC jockies taking up HC plates, thus supply might remain largely unchanged despite a huge increase in HC numbers - at the very least the HC numbers increase will hugely exaggerate the actual increase in taxi supply.

But we aren't even provided with figures for driver numbers, so such an analyis is simply not possible.

Of course there could also be a shift from PH to HC as well, but this might well depend on comparitive quality barriers to the two sectors, and there is no info on that either, but we do know that both locations prescribe black cabs, thus dampening the move from PH to HC.

I think the T&G should be grateful that the OFT's report didn't cover the less anodyne aspects of license quotas, such as the illegal taxis in Dundee and the double standards of the likes of the T&G's Mr Royden in the Wirral.

Dusty

I understand your viewpoint, but would it not be better to stop the illegal (or at least make a dent in it) activities, than allow it to carry on.

From what I read, councils the UK wide have lost the battle to stop the majority of illegal hiring's. If they can stop the vast majority of illegal hiring's over night, would it be irresponsible not to?

Alex

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From my limited experience, I would say that 99% of all illegal hiring's in my area, are done by licensed PH vehicles.

Not saying that's universal, but that's how I see things with my eyes.

Alex

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The T&G response came in two parts, initially a press release (allready published on here) and then in its next Edition of the Cab Sections newsletter CTN.

The OFT report clearly gave NONE of the Cab Sections members anything in the way of improvement to their working conditions, in fact, for the majority it threatened monies that were LEGALLY invested in the aquisition of H/C plates. Right or wrong no-one who truly cares about others would wish to see a fellow driver lose several thousand pounds of hard earned money, particularly when the transfer of such plates is undertaken with FULL council knowledge and agreement.

The OFT report makes NO recomendation for provision at any time, however when the government implement whatever OFT findings they choose to they will also look to introduce the European Working Time Directive which would limit a drivers time at work.

Pretty soon we will all be on here arguing about the action the government decides to take, if any, then we'll all be commenting how things should have been left alone. (or at least most of us will)

Well, license quotas do nothing to improve the working conditions of those who don't have one, and policy shouldn't be decided on the basis only of members of the T&G's Cab Section.

I don't think the plate premium issue can be used to justify retaining quotas, but as our opinion column points out at length, they do perhaps provide an argument for some sort of delay/phasing in implementation, which will obviously happen anyway given the snail's pace of these things, irrespective of whether any deliberate delaying policy is adopted.

But I think the OFT's mention that it will be for the Govt to consider the social aspects sends a pretty strong signal that they may be thinking along these lines, but of course the social aspects of these things are not within their remit.

But as long as plates are transferred on the basis of unequal knowledge of the position by buyers and sellers then the problem will never go away and even if de-limitation was delayed for twenty years then the problem will persist.

Dusty

PS I suggested a period of twenty years not on the basis that I thought that would be an appropriate delay until de-limitation implemenation, but to illustrate the point that as long as plates are bought by those 'in the dark' and sold by those 'who know the score' then the problem of big losses won't go away.

The report never mentioned what we have in Manchester. Briefly it was born out of conflict but when we sat down and thrashed the system out we did not know how successful it would be.
The council intende back in 94/95 to increase the fleet from 500 to possibly 1000.We only found out by chance on the Friday before a policy change on the Monday. A quick dash to the High Court for an Injunction, followed by a Judicial Review with the outcome being that legally the Council could in fact deregulate if they wished but not in a sudden about turn of policy. In addition they were told that they had to go back and discuss any proposed change with the trade,and that all discussion had to be MEANINGFUL. That was the crux, no longer could they dictate to us on what is basically our business.
There followed many meetings and eventually it was agreed that initially 100 plates would be released and subject to a yearly survey a minimum of 20 plates per year thereafter. This was a 5 year plan, subsequently extended to the present day.
The actual allocation is left up to the Council and I can tell you there have been the usual horror stories of plate owners transferring to their wives thus becoming eligible for a new plate and many more such tales. The main criterion being length of service and that is why as I said in a previous thread that our Asian colleagues see that the only way for them is to "buy in" thus forcing up the plate price. The price in no reflects the earning power, e.g if you bought a shop for say £40,000 what return per year would you expect.
Our example is not perhaps the best for everybody but I would suggest it is better than a sudden shock of complete delimitation. We cannot bury our heads for ever and if it needs for the trade to get a kick in the pants this misguided report may be what we need.
Get along to your councils now and discuss controlled expansion, fair criteria and be prepared to part fund any survey because I do not think that any Council will pick up the whole tab, but you never know till you ask.
Good Luck
Ged

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taxi driver @manchester airport

Ged,

the mighty Manchester United is losing 2 0 to a seccond rate Midlands team in the Carling Cup.

Fergie has his wish, he cant stand the tounament, whats he fielding the youth side?

Of course your right, no union, association or other vested interest group should have the right to dictate policy or legislation, but they DO have a right to question any policy or legislation and then publish or put forward the view of their membership majority.

My post illustrated that certain members of this group were calling for the T&G to comment and so I pointed out that the standpoint of the T&G was clear from the initial press release and the in-depth article in CTN, therefore no further comment was needed. Maybe you could find me comment from the NTA or NPHA as I have been able to find nothing from either of these two groups.

The council should pick up the whole tab, in my area we have a licensing department which does not include a designated "taxi" officer. Our "trade" contributes £250K plus every year in fees and we recieve very minimal service. Is this "best value" I think not. Also the T&G have a policy of "managed growth" which has been implimented successfully in some areas of the country prior to this report, maybe forming a drivers association or joining an established group would bring better results than going in individually.

Our esteemed propietor returned from the taxi association tonight, he was livid " I asked you to write me a 20 minute speach, not an hour long one what do you think you are doing, after 30 minutes they started walking out by 45 minutes the room was empty"

"I wrote you a 20 minute speach I insisted, and gave you the 2 eatra copies you asked for"

From my experience all but a few illegal hirings are done by local PH, or out of town HCs.

Many of these hirings are done once the existing HC trade has driven past the customer, at 200 mph, on their way back to the ranks.

Funny that CTN never seems to mention the Wirral or Mr Royden anymore.

Before the case, it was in every edition.

If this all goes tits up, it wont be the fault of those that have lobbied for change. It's the fault of those that live in the past.

If a council came out with a policy and said that's it, no discussion, like it or lump it, the T&G would go berserk.

Well, this is exactly what they are doing.

What I would like to see is someone in the T&G's hierarchy, coming on any of the forums and debating the pro's and con's of their policies.

Don't forget their could be 15,000 new members out there !!!

I don't know about the NTA Mick, but presumably for the NPHA's we will have to await the next issue of PHM, which Bryan Roland's recent post seemed to suggest would be published shortly.

Yes CTN's article does highlight some 'interesting' statistics in the OFT's report.

But if de-limitation has such little effect on waiting times and the like, then what's this merely highlights what many of us have been saying for years - any increase in cab number can largely be due to jockies getting their own plate, so the amount of cabs actually on the streets at any one time doesn't change.

The OFT/Halcrow could have highlighted this by providing comparative driver numbers, but as usual, there's not a snifter.

Nice of the T&G to highlight these points though, it rather undermines its usual apocalyptic forecasts re de-limitation.

Dusty