Taxi Driver Online

Has the office you work from not got enough work for you at peak times then Andy?

Do you think that people walk to ranks at quiet times rather than phoning for a P/H to pick them up from where they are?

Why do some H/C feel the need to work circuits or from P/H offices?

I don't think you've thought this through at all.

B. Lucky

Why do people pay tens of thousands to view the green green grass?

That posting in the year of the disabled is a cracker!

to answer your question from my perspective I will be simple, the trade has a million narrow views, as someone who represents both private hire and hackney Mick is the only way you represent the whole trade, what you always miss before today is the consumer.

take a step back use your imagimagination and you will realise that wherever you are under one code there will be a taxi in a few minutes.

of course the offices will squeal, the back services will squeal, but service will improve the trade will shrink, better incomes and lower costs for drivers.

all vehicles accessible eventually is too far off!

Wharfie

Take Luton as an example.

Say a one-tier system was implemented.

Say 20% of the fleet had to be WAVs.

That's double the amount of WAVs as compared to the DDA being implemented under the current system.

Good that, innit??

Dusty

Warfie says "take a step back use your imagimagination and you will realise that wherever you are under one code there will be a taxi in a few minutes."

Mick says- what does that mean Geoff, I doubt very much that if I waited at my front door I would be able to flag down a H/C EVER never mind in a few minutes. Surely your not suggesting that we all work through "offices" as that wouldn't see any change from the current position at all.

Dusty says "Take Luton as an example.

Say a one-tier system was implemented.

Say 20% of the fleet had to be WAVs.

That's double the amount of WAVs as compared to the DDA being implemented under the current system.

Good that, innit?? "

Mick says- Gateshead has more WAV's than saloons, services to the disabled community are dreadful because WAV's are bought to get a free H/C plate not to service people's needs.

Say a single tier system was implemented.

Who would spend £30k on a WAV when the same plate would be available for any type of vehicle, I doubt very much that 30% of drivers would seek the oppertunities a WAV would bring, the only reason they want a H/C is to pick up from the town and city centre's when the pubs kick out.


B. Lucky

Yes, that was always one drawback of the DDA Mick, taxis (or PH come to that) are under no obligation to service the pre-booked market, but I fail to see that having a smaller number of taxis would help this, quite the reverse in fact.

Yes I agree that few if any will have WAVs unless forced to, but there are others methods that could be used, in the manner of a carrot rather than the current stick.

For example, different age rules for WAVs and saloons to reflect the former's commercial origins and thus greater durability.

Another example, in Ireland they don't charge a license fee for a WAV, although that wouldn't work too well because they charge a couple of grand or so for a plate in Ireland.

Some UK LAs pay WAV subsidies at present, obviously this is on a small scale, but it shows how in principle you could have enough WAVs in a mixed fleet to serve the disabled, without discriminating against drivers to end discrimination against the disabled!!

Fuel duty is another thing that could be tinkered with - if they abolished it for WAVs we'd have no saloons!

Dusty

All valid points Dusty, possibly workable on a small town scale but in our large towns and city centre's where thousands of licenses are issued impossible to administer.

I'm not saying we should have less plates, I'm only saying that there needs to be the work to provide a living wage to those within the trade or entering it, otherwise whats the point.

Incentives for WAV's is one thing, but as far as I'm concerned its just another oppertunity for exploitation, as I have said people in Gateshead didn't buy WAV's to carry wheelchair bound people they bought them to sit outside the nightclubs, and your suggestions will subsodise that activity.

B. Lucky

I agree to some extent Mick, and I would prefer government to provide a WAV service out of taxpayers money, but I think we've got to be realistic, and face the fact that WAV provision will have to be increased in some areas.

As I've always said I'd prefer a one-tier system, but a one-tier WAV system just isn't on.

Dusty

Yes Geoff, but the MPI division studies look at competition issues and can refer the market in question to the CC.

Any market references to the CC will come from MPID, which is currently investigating taxis.

The other main references to the CC are mergers, which obviously don't concern us, at least not on a big scale.

Dusty

Andy is right Mick, the OFT study markets, and where there are major competition issues they refer them to the CC and they investigate them more thoroughly.

If you went directly to the CC and complained they would tell you to go to the OFT.

The CC (or the MMC as it was) investigate one or two markets a year, it's like a souped-up OFT study, I think!

The extended warranties market was referred by the OFT last year, for example, and the CC are about to complete their inquiry.

In the past few years they've looked at things like supermarkets, banking services for small businesses and veterinary medicines.

By the end of the month the CC certainly won't have much in the way of ongoing inquiries, but they're changing over to a new regime under the Enterprise Act 2002, and this will probably mean new procedures and suchlike, so they might well be tied up with that.

If the taxi market was referred I think that would be the first market reference under the Enterprise Act, so it would be uncharted territory even for the CC!

Looking back at the original OFT press release, the two most likely outcomes outlined at the end were always 'recommendations to govt' or a CC reference. If they give the market a 'clean bill of health' then you'll never hear from Dusty again!!

Dusty

What then would be acceptable findings though Dusty?

What is suitable to one isn't to another, and that goes for customers as well as drivers and operators and I suppose to a certain extent councils.

Who therefore would they be pleasing by making any changes at all?

Maybe hampering to the people who expect a H/C or P/H vehicle to be available for them at 11:30 on a Friday and Saturday night might be their idea of reform but I would bet my last penny that people will still struggle to get a cab at these times whatever reccomendations they make.

Maybe allowing drivers the choice of what plate they put on the back of their vehicle will offer them the reform they seek, but where does that end, the people demanding this will look for something else to demand, look for some other in-equality and believe me they will find something.

But what do I know, I'm just some daft Geordie who's trying to make things fair to everyone and not just myself.

B. Lucky

There are so many issues that and so many different opinions that we can never all agree on acceptable findings, but some of the things that I hope the OFT will raise, are as follows:

License quotas - Obviously I'm not in favour, and I really can't see the OFT having much positive things to say about them, or the independent surveys. The main problem from my point of view is the investments made by drivers, which we discussed a day or two ago.

Fares - I doubt if they'll be impressed by the myriad of different levels and structures. For example, we've got a Purbeck late night at £8.50 for a couple of miles, but the ones at the bottom of the pile are less than half that. Then there's the various extras and the like, which don't exist in some areas, but can double the fare in others.

They will probably look at posted prices, where each firm sets their own prices and this is posted on the vehicle to help consumers compare prices, but will it help them do so, and is this desirable??

Driver standards - Again the standard varies wildly, you can get a taxi badge more or less on demand in some areas, then there's the KOL, while some areas need the DSA test these days? Do we need all these different approaches?? It's a lot easier to get a taxi badge in some areas than PH in others.

Vehicle standards. Again this varies wildly - in some areas a ten year old Sunny can be plated as a taxi, in others it's a brand new TX2. Is this sensible, and what about the DDA, not to mention turning circles??

There are basically two approaches to standards - set them, or don't. Some pro-market people will say leave it to the market, others will say it doesn't work - look at Dublin. But if setting standards, what should they be??

Two-tier/one-tier?? Do we really need two tiers?? Or does it just confuse the public and casue conflict in the trade?? This is related to standards - if the DDA is implemented fully then we'd still need two tiers anyway.

Licensing function - should this be left to LAs, or an independent body set up, perhaps with a taxi tsar?? Obviously the Irish example is timeous. After all we don't let councillors set standards and prices for the post or electricity etc, that sort of thing is normally left to experts!!

Then there's things like the Working Time Directive, Free and Open Access and the black economy, which are important issues in the trade.

To complicate things, they're basically dealing with 4 different systems, London, England and Wales, Scotland and NI, and taxi and PH in both

I think the report will raise many of these issues, but I'm not sure if the OFT will answer them - my money's on a CC reference.

We do not need a two tier system, even including WAVs in the issue. Obviously, there should be a percentage of WAVs which reflects the demand for WAVs in a certain area.

Lets take your Luton example and say, just for argument, that 20% of vehicles in each area should be WAVs (personally, I think thats high, as 20% of people generally, simply dont use wheelchairs. I think nearer 5%). Lets suggest 10% then?

Next question is therefore, carrot or stick. We can force WAVs, or we can entice WAVs onto fleets. Lets say then that if you operate a fleet of ten or more cars (as a circuit) then at least one in ten must be WAVs.

Next, increase the license fee, and use the increased revenues to subsidise those for the WAV. Next, take out the money your council is wasting on unproductive community schemes, and plough that back into WAV provision. 30% capital grant, paid annually over five years of plate holding (helps prevent prevent fraud).

Sufficient carrot and stick. More WAVs would follow.

As a footnote: 15% of our fleet are WAVs. We get no subsidy for them, but our Council have stated that they have an intent to reduce plate fees by 50% for WAVs as of next renewal.

_________________
There is Significant Unmet Demand for my Opinion.

Yes Andy, I think we're pretty close on that as well.

I think the bottome line is that is has to be something that people can choose to do, not have it forced on them as in areas that have partially de-limited, like Gateshead.

It's ironic that in locations that have partially de-limited on the basis of WAVs, to get rid of one type of discrimination they are introducing another.

Dusty

Seems to me you have lost the point of what OFT does, there responsibly is to look into unfair trading practices, not ow the T&G want this the PH want that.

The basics are simple restricted numbers policy is against all European and British competition laws. The other issues such as prices and standard are obviously to be included. My bet is a complaint was made re restricted numbers then the floodgates opened i.e. council fixing prices driving standards ECT

There are way to many narrow minded ppl that follow their own financial interests not the travelling public. In my experience the growth of night buses nation wide has grown. The reason being restriction numbers polices means the drivers with plates would sooner see the public travel on a bus than have more licenses.
No one told these silly bad business minded fools that travelling in a Taxis is a habit, a habit that can be gotten out of if there’s none to travel in