Taxi Driver Online

captain cab wrote:
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However, if the new license is granted to a PH driver then this will increase taxi supply, but the extent of this will depend on whether he continues to service the pre-booked market, in which case he might well only take a small proportion of his total work from the street market with his new taxi license.


Ahh I see, so we can increase taxi numbers, just so long as a plate is granted to a new entrant to the trade then? hmmmm and you were telling us all about democracy a few minutes ago


No, that paragraph was demonstrating the inadequacy of the unmet demand test.

Anyway, what has that got to do with democracy?

captain cab wrote:
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Flaws in the independent surveys


Hehe, I thought they'd be wrong.

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To assess whether unmet demand for taxi services is evident, case law indicates that a survey should be undertaken by an independent body. In general terms, these surveys undertake observations at taxi ranks and use the data to ascertain how many additional taxis are required to meet any unmet demand that is manifested.


Correct.

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One major flaw, identified by the OFT, is that the surveys take no account of demand in the hail market – clearly a significant source of taxi work. Another major flaw is that the surveys fail to take sufficient account of ‘latent’ demand; that is demand that is not satisfied due to the lack of taxis available. To illustrate this, it is clear that large parts of London are not served by taxis, but this is obviously due to qualitative barriers to entering the trade rather than quantity controls on taxis. However, assuming that this lack of service was due to quantity controls then if an unmet demand survey was undertaken this would clearly not include areas currently not serviced by taxis – thus if there is no supply then there will be no demand, and thus no unmet demand evidenced.


I'm not sure how significant hailing it actually is, with the exception of London.

But then, London does not have surveys, so why is there a persistence in looking at London?

an irellevent point really (dont say mine or yours)


I think that basically the more urban the area, the more hailing there is.

But if HCs cherry pick areas, then the true extent of hailing cannot be ascertained.

The reason for looking at London is that a lot of people who know the trade knows that HCs concentrate on the centre (apart from the yellow badges), so it's a good analogy, because apart from London most people that will be reading the document will only know their own area.

captain cab wrote:
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In the provinces it is clear that in cities like Manchester taxis are able to cherry-pick which areas to serve (primarily city centres) thus in suburban areas customers will secure a PHV in the pre-booked market and will not even consider getting a taxi, therefore the cherry-picking means that there is no unmet demand manifested in neglected areas.



Yes, however you do miss a point, even if Manchester or where-ever is completely delimited, there is no guarantee that vehicles will ply for hire in suburban areas.

Indeed, the simple fact is that with more taxis, more taxis will ply for hire in the town centres.


If there were no PH and too many HCs then the centre would not sustain them and some would migrate to the suburbs, probably doing mainly radio work, and some street work.

But the qualitative aspect means there will still be some PH in most places even with de-limitation, so there would still be cherry picking going on.

The qualitative barriers to entering the HC trade are dealt with elsewhere in the document.

captain cab wrote:
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Neither is the demand for taxis in the pre-booked sector considered – in the extreme example of Dundee at one time taxis serviced substantially all of the pre-booked market undertaken by PHVs in other locations, and it seems that even now only the existence of quantity controls on taxis precludes the operation of an almost 100% taxi-only supply-side.


I think the point of the exersize is starting to be eroded.

Local authorities usually call for more taxis and surveys when they think there is a significant unmet demand. This is queues of people waiting long periods at taxi ranks.

So what the document states here is basically its okay if you cant get a vehicle by phone from a PH firm, but scandalous if you cant get a vehicle from a taxi firm by phone.

Hmmm, sounds fair


The point was that the surveys don't measure demand for pre-booked taxis.

I understand what you are saying, but then surveys could be adapted. Anyway, taxis are for immediate hire and PH is prebooked, so why would a hackney survey want to look at PH?

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It's about the powerlessness of plateless drivers. For example, they can be blackballed if they speak out. The point about self-employment is that they have no rights, like cockle pickers, say.

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okay, so self employed PH drivers have more rights?

No, who claimed that?

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For example, they can be blackballed if they speak out.

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So the systems at fault for an illegal act?

What illegal act?

captain cab wrote:
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More subtle are the use of regulatory variables to achieve the desired result. While this could happen by accident of regulation, the same outcome can be achieved by the deliberate manipulation of the regulatory variables. Edinburgh appears to demonstrate evidence of this taking place, again with little apparent regard to the needs of the public or others in the trade.



Are you sure you dont write SCATA articles?

I dont follow at all.


By regulatory variables I mean knowlege tests, fare levels etc.

For example, you could use high fares to get rid of demand deliberately, or just implement high fares without such an intent, but it has the same effect.

captain cab wrote:
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Administering quantity controls on taxis


Okay you'll be relieved to know im concluding this for today at the end of this bit.

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While the mere concept of limiting taxi numbers will seem somewhat alien to anyone operating in the mainstream business world, the bureaucracy surrounding them merely adds grist to the mill.

For a start, the necessary unmet demand surveys can cost tens of thousands of pounds. This cost is normally borne by the trade, and to the individual license holder the price is one well worth paying – the additional cost is normally less than the standard administrative fee levied by the council, which in turn is negligible as compared to the monopoly profits that can be earned. However, council tax payers can also be made to foot the bill to maintain the plate holders’ cartel and excess profits.


An argumentative point.

If the survey is borne by the trade, what is the problem to anyone?

It is not a monopoly as anyone may purchase a plate

Excess profits? I dont actually believe there is excess profits...and you use the word cartel again


Plate premiums = excess profits = cartel.

You may like them, but I don't

I understand what you are saying, but then surveys could be adapted. Anyway, taxis are for immediate hire and PH is prebooked, so why would a hackney survey want to look at PH?

captain cab wrote:
I understand what you are saying, but then surveys could be adapted. Anyway, taxis are for immediate hire and PH is prebooked, so why would a hackney survey want to look at PH?


Captain these people don't want to see surveys adapted, they do not want any sort of investigation into exactly what is required, they don't want any assurance that a decent living can be made once a plate is aquired particularly in areas where brand new WAVs are demanded.

They claim they request this action in the nmae of fairness, the whole point of Myth and Reality was intended to promote fairness, but what they cannot get through their heads that what they are requesting is fair only to them, its not telling the whole story but offering a bias viewpoint which will line the pockets of a specialist taxi solicitor from Manchester who is currently contacting councils promoting his unfair and bias viewpoint. The problem is that his claims to offer a "watertight" legal argument for derestriction are only in his benefit as his costs are signifigantly less than that of an unmet demand survey or any other kind of investigation, along with a promise of increased revenue.

Lets please get a grip on the real reality, Nidge was banned cause he got to close to the truth, all of the evidence is there if you'd just take the time to read what has been said.

B. Lucky

[The document mentioned that the system in some areas was undemocratic.

[I dont think the point is totally irellevent, however, as London dont have restrictions on licenses I dont see that the anology is much use.

hehe there you go with that word probably again!

So if town centres get too full of taxis then they'll probably look to the suburbs for work, then again they probably wont.

I understand what you are saying, but then surveys could be adapted. Anyway, taxis are for immediate hire and PH is prebooked, so why would a hackney survey want to look at PH?

Since when have HC's been able to put their fares up without LA approval?