In a speech to NATPHLEO on 21st October 2004, the new Minister for Transport Charlotte Atkins MP asked "is it really right to bar those who meet the application criteria and want to run their own taxi service?".
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| Author: | Sussex [ Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | My new friend the Minister. |
In a speech to NATPHLEO on 21st October 2004, the new Minister for Transport Charlotte Atkins MP asked "is it really right to bar those who meet the application criteria and want to run their own taxi service?".
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| Author: | cheshirebest [ Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:28 am ] |
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Sussex, When you quote someone could you at least quote correctly and not just the bits that suit your ambitions ? What about the bit where she said '' local authorities are best placed to decide local matters''. ? Therefore we are leaving it to local authorities to decide for themselves. |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:32 am ] |
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OK then. '' local authorities are best placed to decide local matters. Therefore we are leaving it to local authorities to decide for themselves". However "is it really right to bar those who meet the application criteria and want to run their own taxi service?". Now answer the question she posed. 
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| Author: | cheshirebest [ Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:39 am ] |
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Sussex, Very prompt reply indeed. Yes, it is justifiable in the public interest. Manchester hackneys run the best fleet outside london. As soon as the drinking hours are changed next year there will be taxis for all almost on demand. Restrictions exist in all matters. Chemists are restricted from opening near an existing one. There are restrictions on building on land without planning permission. There are restrictions on the no of MOT stations that are allowed. Try getting a licence to open one in Manchester. Apart from all that there are areas like Liverpool that de-limited and had to go back to limiting licences. They will not be in a hurry to de-limit again will they ? |
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| Author: | Charlie the Paperlad [ Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:20 am ] |
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I know I might be repeating myself here  .
In answer to the ministers question, no-one is barred from running their own taxi service providing they meet the application criteria, they just have to operate as Private Hire. I would suggest that this "new" minister has not the experience nor the knowledge of the trade to understand that taxi offices outside London are actually PH operators but as they have at least one HC they are entitled to call their operation ********** Taxis. The bottom line remains, as Chesirebest quite rightly points out, local authorities remain best placed to decide local matters. |
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| Author: | Yorkie [ Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:25 pm ] |
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Charlie the Paperlad wrote: I know I might be repeating myself here
.In answer to the ministers question, no-one is barred from running their own taxi service providing they meet the application criteria, they just have to operate as Private Hire. I would suggest that this "new" minister has not the experience nor the knowledge of the trade to understand that taxi offices outside London are actually PH operators but as they have at least one HC they are entitled to call their operation ********** Taxis. The bottom line remains, as Chesirebest quite rightly points out, local authorities remain best placed to decide local matters. Bollox |
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| Author: | TDO [ Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:03 pm ] |
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cheshirebest wrote: Manchester hackneys run the best fleet outside london.
So the implication is that London has a better fleet than Manchester? Funny that, London is unrestricted 
What about Blackpool, for example, most of which are a pile of shat (and that's not what's left behind by the horse-drawn ones that I'm talking about!) , and even the TOA man there more or less said so in Taxi Talk a while ago: But spokesman for BLTOA Trevor Boaler said the money had to come from somewhere to bring Blackpool's fleet up to standard. He said: "I went to Plymouth recently and saw the line up of taxi on the ranks down there. They looked like something out of a showroom. "It made our taxi on North Station look well and truly tatty." How much are plates worth in Blackpool, which was in the vanguard of the anti-OFT misleading nonsense brigade? |
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| Author: | TDO [ Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:08 pm ] |
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cheshirebest wrote: As soon as the drinking hours are changed next year there will be taxis for all almost on demand.
But it would be even better with derestriction, surely, as the NWTA man in Leeds said post-OFT: "But Mr Hayton said derestriction would mean more drivers working the lucrative night-time slots and less during normal daytime hours." Mind you, the rest of the NWTA were saying the direct opposite, perhaps because they just made up these things as they went along! |
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| Author: | TDO [ Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:12 pm ] |
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cheshirebest wrote: Restrictions exist in all matters.
Perhaps, but not arbitrary numerical restrictions as per the taxi trade. OK, so you listed about 1% of the economy or so that is (or may be) numerically restricted, so what about the other 99%? Clearly there's no point in listing the numerous businesses that aren't restricted. |
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| Author: | TDO [ Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:24 pm ] |
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cheshirebest wrote: Apart from all that there are areas like Liverpool that de-limited and had to go back to limiting licences.
They will not be in a hurry to de-limit again will they ? Well it's hardly a revelation that those who get a plate then ask for the market to be closed, after all that's why the whole issue arose in the first place, it's just a pity that Liverpool kow-towed to them. Liverpool is basically like what was described by unions in New York as follows: Under the current scheme in place in New York City, more than 44,000 workers who drive the city's taxicabs are being blatantly exploited by a cartel of owners who have manipulated the system to deprive the drivers of income and benefits... Further evidence of this in Liverpool was provided in a recent thread on this forum, where it's clear that all the council is worried about is the 'cartel of owners', and not the excluded drivers: http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=1097 And I wonder why the Lib Dem controlled council in Liverpool doesn't take the same stance as the Lib Dem leader of Cambridge City Council did: The shortage of cabs in Cambridge has come about because of past collusion between the cab drivers and the council to create a closed shop to keep new drivers out. Cab drivers have, over the years, persuaded councillors to limit the number of cabs to less than the number required by the public. This means that people who are fully qualified to drive cabs are kept out. […] Under the old closed shop system, a kind of 'grey' market developed in which existing taxi drivers 'sold' their right to operate taxis to newcomers. In some cases the holder of the licence gave it up to the newcomer. In other cases, the holder of the licence merely 'rented' the right to operate the cab to a succession of other people, sometimes to more than one person at once. There are even instances of people who hold more than one licence who make money not by driving but by 'renting' out their licences. The Council turned a blind eye to these practices, although it has forbidden them outright for more recent licences. De-limitation means that in the future people who want to become taxi drivers will not have to pay grey market prices for licences in deals with existing taxi drivers. The cost of a licence from the council is presently under £300, and it is set to fall dramatically. In the future, drivers will have lower costs and will be able to make a living more easily. |
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| Author: | TDO [ Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:32 pm ] |
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Charlie the Paperlad wrote: In answer to the ministers question, no-one is barred from running their own taxi service providing they meet the application criteria, they just have to operate as Private Hire.
But a PH is not a HC, as you well know - when the DfT speak about taxis, what they usually mean is a HC - they don't usually use the term generically, if you care to have a look at some of the publications they produce. And since PH plates are worth nothing, but HC plates can be worth tens of thousands, thus indicating the presence of excess profits, then I doubt if your answer would pass muster with the minister. She's an LSE economics graduate you know, so you'll have to try better than that 
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| Author: | Sussex [ Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:21 pm ] |
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cheshirebest wrote: Very prompt reply indeed. You're more than welcome. cheshirebest wrote: Yes, it is justifiable in the public interest. And who speaks for the public? Is it the Consumers Ass, because they supported the OFT's report to the hilt. Or have you evidence which supports the view that fewer cabs available to the public is a good thing? cheshirebest wrote: Manchester hackneys run the best fleet outside london. Do they then insist on brand new TXs, like Birmingham, Solihull, Nottingham, Mansfield (  ), and many other councils?cheshirebest wrote: As soon as the drinking hours are changed next year there will be taxis for all almost on demand. Your evidence for this is what? Because even those in power don't really have a clue as to what will happen. A little birdie told me that there is even talk of a third tier of taxis being licensed. Maybe just for the hours of 11.00pm to 6.00am. Now if your views are right and there will be ample supply of cabs to meet any demand from the new licensing hours, then one has to wonder why those at the very top are quite worried. cheshirebest wrote: Restrictions exist in all matters. Doesn't make them always right. cheshirebest wrote: Chemists are restricted from opening near an existing one. Read the report again. A new chemist can open if it opens a certain number of unsociable hours. cheshirebest wrote: There are restrictions on the no of MOT stations that are allowed. Try getting a licence to open one in Manchester. Two wrongs have never made a right. cheshirebest wrote: Apart from all that there are areas like Liverpool that de-limited and had to go back to limiting licences.
They will not be in a hurry to de-limit again will they ? I expect there are a few councils that will be forever gutless. But I think the gov will do the job for them in a few years. But isn't Liverpool the place where there were so many cabs that it caused massive traffic jams. Pray tell me how many of those plates which caused all that terrible traffic have been returned to the council? |
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| Author: | Yorkie [ Sat Nov 20, 2004 4:41 am ] |
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TDO wrote: cheshirebest wrote: Manchester hackneys run the best fleet outside london. So the implication is that London has a better fleet than Manchester? Funny that, London is unrestricted What about Blackpool, for example, most of which are a pile of shat (and that's not what's left behind by the horse-drawn ones that I'm talking about!) , and even the TOA man there more or less said so in Taxi Talk a while ago: But spokesman for BLTOA Trevor Boaler said the money had to come from somewhere to bring Blackpool's fleet up to standard. He said: "I went to Plymouth recently and saw the line up of taxi on the ranks down there. They looked like something out of a showroom. "It made our taxi on North Station look well and truly tatty." How much are plates worth in Blackpool, which was in the vanguard of the anti-OFT misleading nonsense brigade? I think writing under the TDO banner should mean, talking from a well informed standpoint and not total ignorance. cheshire cat should be forgiven for talking bollox, even the Blackpool trade man ought to use his brains a little cabbies in Blackpool are hardworking and thier total livelyhood is made from hirings whereas Plymouth cabbies sell contraband, and have the benefit of running off tax free diesel, make mo wonder they have new taxis the best taxis in the uk are those in rural Calderdale, and the second best are in Liverpool. last night between 5 and 8 Manchester could not produce a single taxi at the worlds third biggest airport, and chefirecat thinks they are good? Fuxsake. |
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| Author: | cheshirebest [ Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:43 am ] |
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Thank you for your responses............ I will try and answer all your concerns..... TDO wrote........So, the implication is that London has a better fleet than Manchester, Funny that London is unrestricted. Well, yes and no. London is unrestricted in the issue of plates but restricts Badges by having a very tough knowledge, so, its the same thing. Besides London is unique with the no of wealthy people there needing Cabs hardly compares with the poor people (relatively speaking) we deal with. Ken Livingstone is trying to open up the ''knowledge'' due to the advent of GPS but not getting very far at the moment. TDO wrote........1% of economy is restricted.......... Sorry, but its not !% but more like 80%. Look at : Off licences, take aways, pubs, clubs, restaurants, even house building which needs planning permission........... Theres not much you can do without restriction. Susses wrote :....... Do Manchester insist on brand new cabs ? No, they dont but still the fleet is pretty new. ''As soon as drinking hourss are changed next year there will be taxis for all almost on demand'' ''Your evidence for this'' ? My evidence for this is two fold 1) In 1996 Manchester staged the Euro 96 and 2) In 2002 Manchester had the commonwealth games. Licensing for pubs/clubs were relaxed during both these events and people were coming out at all hours at their leisure and there enough taxis to meet the demand. I might add that during Euro 96 Manchester had less than 600 cabs compared with 850+ now. Sussex wrote : Please tell me how many of the free plates have been returned to the council(Liverpool). The answer is ..........about 50%. The figures are as follows: Pre de limitation 700 cabs. After de limitation 3,000 cabs Today 1500 cabs. Bolton de limited and the net result was that 1 guy actually returned the plate he had as there was no work before the de limitation. Result ; council restricted again. Yorkie wrote.... Last night between 5 and 8 Manchester could not produce a single cab at the worlds 3rd biggest Airport & cheshirecat thinks they are good. Well, First of all Manchester is the third biggest Airport in the Uk NOT the world ! Secondly, I know someone who works at the Airport and says this is rubbish. Yes, there were two accidents on the M56 which resulted in delays in getting to the Airport with the christmas shoppers adding to the congestion. However, the Airport was supplied as best as possible and no-one waited for three hours. |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:54 am ] |
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cheshirebest wrote: Susses wrote :.......
Do Manchester insist on brand new cabs ? No, they dont but still the fleet is pretty new. ''As soon as drinking hourss are changed next year there will be taxis for all almost on demand'' ''Your evidence for this'' ? My evidence for this is two fold 1) In 1996 Manchester staged the Euro 96 and 2) In 2002 Manchester had the commonwealth games. Licensing for pubs/clubs were relaxed during both these events and people were coming out at all hours at their leisure and there enough taxis to meet the demand. I might add that during Euro 96 Manchester had less than 600 cabs compared with 850+ now. All very well, but you miss my, and for that matter your point. You said that Manchester should stay restricted cos you have the second best cab standards in the country. However I can't work out how you can say your standards are better than those de-limited councils that insist on brand new motors.
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