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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:44 am 
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How is he on my side?

And you're post above ff seems to contridict itself.

CC

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:57 am 
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Saltmarket wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Saltmarket wrote:
The definition of a fair price is a price a customer is prepared to pay in exchange for good or services.

What goods or service are being sold? :?


The plate.
It’s all a load of BS. You don’t pay for something that’s never yours. Anyone should be able to get any plate on any vehicle with any council.
All this will end in tears when the OFT finish doing their stuff. The EU will sort it out those stupid councils who say you must use a WAV or only give out plates to the select few, thereby making a piece of plastic supposedly worth £30,000.
It all smells like a cartel were the few will profit out of passing on their plastic to some other unsuspecting newbie for £30k when in fact its really worth 50p in the real world!
De-reg and be dammed!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:43 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
How is he on my side?


I thought that was obvious?

Quote:
And you're post above ff seems to contridict itself.


I didn't think that was obvious?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:18 pm 
Smoked Glass wrote:
Saltmarket wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Saltmarket wrote:
The definition of a fair price is a price a customer is prepared to pay in exchange for good or services.

What goods or service are being sold? :?


The plate.
It’s all a load of BS. You don’t pay for something that’s never yours. Anyone should be able to get any plate on any vehicle with any council.
All this will end in tears when the OFT finish doing their stuff. The EU will sort it out those stupid councils who say you must use a WAV or only give out plates to the select few, thereby making a piece of plastic supposedly worth £30,000.
It all smells like a cartel were the few will profit out of passing on their plastic to some other unsuspecting newbie for £30k when in fact its really worth 50p in the real world!
De-reg and be dammed!




Well Smoke I guess anyone looking in from the outside would come to that conclusion.

Thing is there's nothing cartel in it at all, go see if you can open 9 bars all alongside each other, the original issue cost those lucky enough to apply for one nothing, they were issued in relation to estimated demand at the time, here it was 100 originally, then in 85 another 50 were issued and under de-reg another 83 were licenced, all 83 of them WAV's, there were more but ppl began giving them back as the repo man arrived, no vehicle no plate, it's no good banging the de-reg drum, look at how many threads here are showing driver striking or jamming up their cities, do you think that's because they are having it off? NO, that's because they are sitting around all day and night driving tired due to extended hours in older cars than a regulated fleet would have, and I bet those that have slipped in under de-reg are now lined up with the old boys moaning about it, just like you will if you ever get your wishes, it's simple economics, a busy cabby can afford to run good quality vehicles and maintain it, a quiet one can only think I need a new tyre but I can't spare the £50 for it this week, the week becomes a month and the cab becomes dangerous, trust me I've seen it all and done it all in this game, and right now it's being meddled with by ppl who haven't a clue about it.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:09 pm 
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I agree with your synopsis Mr Doom, but my biggest bug bear is the restriction of the plates. I am all for restricting Licenses, Must speak English, must have a good knowledge of area etc must be sole income and sign an affidavit to swear to that effect. No foreign people would then be entitled to drive. They are crb checked but they may be mass murderers from iranistan and not been caught yet.
The fleet would be similar in size to the original regulated days. The part-timers would all go, the doleys would all go, the foreigners would never be entertained Job Done. The main aim of De-regulating the plates would be to free up a closed shop. Some [most]PH drivers would opt to change over and they should be allowed any vehicle with 4 doors and a roof. Ok maybe they should all be black with a Taxi sign on top but they should all be allowed to choose and not be restricted.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:14 pm 
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Smoked glass, need I remind you that earlier this week you were quite prepared to go to another local authority for a hc license to work elsewhere because the conditions of getting a license were more relaxed?

CC

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:35 pm 
Simply isn't the rank space for extra Smokey, you can't exclude foreign ppl just for the sake of it, i agree they need looking at, and that's what is about to happen where they will be crb'd from their country of origin soon, how fool proof that will be I dunno but it's a start, the whole de-reg thing is unworkable because a Hackey in the true sense of the work is a vehicle that serves the public on the steet, a PHC serves them on a deffo pre arrangement.

If it became say all HC and there was no PH anymore, before long someone would think, hey I've an idea why don't I get ppl to call me for a lift and the cycle begins again, only one person benefits from de-reg and that's those that own an office because it's a certainty once there's too many cabs they will have to ask for a radio, so in effect you create a cartel by doing this, the only way you can become a HC o/d and be profitable is if you go to a regulated area and stump up for a plate, the dream is no office subs and no shifts, in a de-reg world niether exist.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:18 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Smoked glass, need I remind you that earlier this week you were quite prepared to go to another local authority for a hc license to work elsewhere because the conditions of getting a license were more relaxed?

CC
Yes of course, but don’t you think If I could get a HC in Chester or Flintshire I would of done by now. They are regulated by the local conditions, WAVs only! If councils took my advice I wouldn't be able to get a HC in another district unless I learnt the local area road system.
I wouldn’t have to though would I if the two councils mentioned were more reasonable with there choice of vehicles. I stand by my statement.
You say more relaxed, I say reasonable. Its the choice of a word. If your council has WAV's and is restricting the plates, I say your living in a bubble. To you its seems normal but to other ppl its seems unfair. I think I should be able to get a license in my own disrtict without a WAV. I dont agree with your assessment that Flintshire are more regulated just different. Chester has a knowledge test but as I have just finished there its not a problem. The main problem every council is different with their own set of rules.
You my friend may be ok with your council with the type of vehicle and local conditions and good luck to you. My local council is already dereg but I dont want a WAV. I dont see the point in driving around with 2 ppl in a van all the time and a extra 50% fuel bill. It may be ok for you but not for me.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:28 pm 
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Quote:
you can't exclude foreign ppl just for the sake of it, i agree they need looking at, and that's what is about to happen where they will be crb'd from their country of origin soon

Why not? I accept for the moment that EU member country citizens can come here freely and work, but there is no law against stopping non EU citizens. Are you implying that anyone from anywhere should be able to freely come to the UK and drive a Taxi?

Quote:
the whole de-reg thing is unworkable because a Hackey in the true sense of the work is a vehicle that serves the public on the steet, a PHC serves them on a deffo pre arrangement


Were do you think PH vehicles drive around; they serve the public on the street as well. It’s a weak argument not to De-reg. Again I maintain that the licenses should be restricted! The vehicles cant drive themselves around on their own yet so there would be less drivers, all full timers, well trained and committed professionals. Not like some of the twin jobbers out there who just top up there wages at your expense. They are the real enemy.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:15 pm 
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Smoked Glass wrote:
captain cab wrote:
Smoked glass, need I remind you that earlier this week you were quite prepared to go to another local authority for a hc license to work elsewhere because the conditions of getting a license were more relaxed?

CC
Yes of course, but don’t you think If I could get a HC in Chester or Flintshire I would of done by now. They are regulated by the local conditions, WAVs only! If councils took my advice I wouldn't be able to get a HC in another district unless I learnt the local area road system.
I wouldn’t have to though would I if the two councils mentioned were more reasonable with there choice of vehicles. I stand by my statement.


Yes my friend....but admittedly its one that would suit you that you would prefer :wink:

CC

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:55 am 
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Doom wrote:
it's simple economics, a busy cabby can afford to run good quality vehicles and maintain it, a quiet one can only think I need a new tyre but I can't spare the £50 for it this week, the week becomes a month and the cab becomes dangerous, trust me I've seen it all and done it all in this game, and right now it's being meddled with by ppl who haven't a clue about it.


So where's the evidence, or is this just another taxi rank myth?

Some of the worst 'clampdown' stories on here have been from restricted areas.

And what about the oft-quoted Blackpool? £40,000 plates and £400 motors :lol:

If someone is £40k in hock to buy a plate how does that help them buy/maintain a decent motor?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:07 am 
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Doom wrote:

If it became say all HC and there was no PH anymore, before long someone would think, hey I've an idea why don't I get ppl to call me for a lift and the cycle begins again, only one person benefits from de-reg and that's those that own an office because it's a certainty once there's too many cabs they will have to ask for a radio, so in effect you create a cartel by doing this, the only way you can become a HC o/d and be profitable is if you go to a regulated area and stump up for a plate, the dream is no office subs and no shifts, in a de-reg world niether exist.


So there are no independents in unrestricted areas, Doomser?

Bullocks, I worked the ranks in St Andrews for years before the area was restricted and there were plenty like me.

No cartels either, plenty of new circuits started in those years, some stay, but I can't recall many folding, so unless the laws of economics/competition in your manor are different then I don't recognise the scenario you're painting.

Oh, and over 100 HC in St Andrews, but zero PH. Has worked well like this for decades as far as I know, and certainly in the last ten years.

Dundee had zero PH at one point and 800 taxis I think, so one-tier isn't a blueprint, it's the real world.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:07 am 
Fae Fife wrote:
Doom wrote:

If it became say all HC and there was no PH anymore, before long someone would think, hey I've an idea why don't I get ppl to call me for a lift and the cycle begins again, only one person benefits from de-reg and that's those that own an office because it's a certainty once there's too many cabs they will have to ask for a radio, so in effect you create a cartel by doing this, the only way you can become a HC o/d and be profitable is if you go to a regulated area and stump up for a plate, the dream is no office subs and no shifts, in a de-reg world niether exist.


So there are no independents in unrestricted areas, Doomser?

Bullocks, I worked the ranks in St Andrews for years before the area was restricted and there were plenty like me.

No cartels either, plenty of new circuits started in those years, some stay, but I can't recall many folding, so unless the laws of economics/competition in your manor are different then I don't recognise the scenario you're painting.

Oh, and over 100 HC in St Andrews, but zero PH. Has worked well like this for decades as far as I know, and certainly in the last ten years.

Dundee had zero PH at one point and 800 taxis I think, so one-tier isn't a blueprint, it's the real world.



Well try 238 HC and 900 PH before you spout at me, 400 of whom seem to think their plate is white instead of red, add in the moving of a perfectly placed rank that became a drop zone, aka PH pirate rank and perhaps you can understand why I am how I am, oh, and if the rest of eastern europe migrates here it'll be 1500 PHC before long, all made possible by those barons you all so hate, cos immigrants can't get finance can they.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:00 am 
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Doom wrote:
Fae Fife wrote:
Doom wrote:

If it became say all HC and there was no PH anymore, before long someone would think, hey I've an idea why don't I get ppl to call me for a lift and the cycle begins again, only one person benefits from de-reg and that's those that own an office because it's a certainty once there's too many cabs they will have to ask for a radio, so in effect you create a cartel by doing this, the only way you can become a HC o/d and be profitable is if you go to a regulated area and stump up for a plate, the dream is no office subs and no shifts, in a de-reg world niether exist.


So there are no independents in unrestricted areas, Doomser?

Bullocks, I worked the ranks in St Andrews for years before the area was restricted and there were plenty like me.

No cartels either, plenty of new circuits started in those years, some stay, but I can't recall many folding, so unless the laws of economics/competition in your manor are different then I don't recognise the scenario you're painting.

Oh, and over 100 HC in St Andrews, but zero PH. Has worked well like this for decades as far as I know, and certainly in the last ten years.

Dundee had zero PH at one point and 800 taxis I think, so one-tier isn't a blueprint, it's the real world.



Well try 238 HC and 900 PH before you spout at me, 400 of whom seem to think their plate is white instead of red, add in the moving of a perfectly placed rank that became a drop zone, aka PH pirate rank and perhaps you can understand why I am how I am, oh, and if the rest of eastern europe migrates here it'll be 1500 PHC before long, all made possible by those barons you all so hate, cos immigrants can't get finance can they.
Well you have made my point for me. Eastern immigrants! Restrict the licenses not the plates and they would never get a license would they...unless they knew Dundee like the back of there hand and could speaka de perfecta English and pass a CRB check. They shouldn’t be entertained because the criminal Justice system in their own country does not keep a similar data base for criminals, as we do in the UK. It is obvious to everyone that because we do not know anything about the said persons we should NOT give them the benefit of the doubt and not give them a license.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:01 pm 
Smoked Glass wrote:
Doom wrote:
Fae Fife wrote:
Doom wrote:

If it became say all HC and there was no PH anymore, before long someone would think, hey I've an idea why don't I get ppl to call me for a lift and the cycle begins again, only one person benefits from de-reg and that's those that own an office because it's a certainty once there's too many cabs they will have to ask for a radio, so in effect you create a cartel by doing this, the only way you can become a HC o/d and be profitable is if you go to a regulated area and stump up for a plate, the dream is no office subs and no shifts, in a de-reg world niether exist.


So there are no independents in unrestricted areas, Doomser?

Bullocks, I worked the ranks in St Andrews for years before the area was restricted and there were plenty like me.

No cartels either, plenty of new circuits started in those years, some stay, but I can't recall many folding, so unless the laws of economics/competition in your manor are different then I don't recognise the scenario you're painting.

Oh, and over 100 HC in St Andrews, but zero PH. Has worked well like this for decades as far as I know, and certainly in the last ten years.

Dundee had zero PH at one point and 800 taxis I think, so one-tier isn't a blueprint, it's the real world.



Well try 238 HC and 900 PH before you spout at me, 400 of whom seem to think their plate is white instead of red, add in the moving of a perfectly placed rank that became a drop zone, aka PH pirate rank and perhaps you can understand why I am how I am, oh, and if the rest of eastern europe migrates here it'll be 1500 PHC before long, all made possible by those barons you all so hate, cos immigrants can't get finance can they.
Well you have made my point for me. Eastern immigrants! Restrict the licenses not the plates and they would never get a license would they...unless they knew Dundee like the back of there hand and could speaka de perfecta English and pass a CRB check. They shouldn’t be entertained because the criminal Justice system in their own country does not keep a similar data base for criminals, as we do in the UK. It is obvious to everyone that because we do not know anything about the said persons we should NOT give them the benefit of the doubt and not give them a license.



And you honestly think that would remain workable, let me tell you how it will pan out

LO - Sorry but you aren't up to standard

Imm - But I want I want!

LO - I'm sorry as I've said 30 times already you don't qualify

Imm - I go see solicitor

LO - That's your choice

Imm - It's my human right to have a license, I want I want!

Solic - Yes Mr Popalopski I can help

LO - Open mail, gets told case is going ahead

LO - Bottle goes cos they can't risk public money

Licence issued.


And it's happening anyway, our conditions were FULL UK DL for 1 year, resident for 1 year and the ability to speak English and know the area, as we have an Indian who can't speak a word of English on the rank I'd say he either isn't licensed or they've turned a blind eye, the sad thing is the cab game is a dumping ground for the Government, they aren't interested if the guy was a General in some army, or if he soddamised kids before coming here, they have one priority with them and thats to get them off benefits, you should see our high street during the day, there is every tongue spoken other than English, it's like an occupation, now I like a bit of something different, but I don't need a flood of them, so I have to conclude even if the correct rules were in place and administered properly you would still find ppl loopholing it.


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