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 Post subject: Salford De-Limit
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:11 pm 
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Salford had thier judicial review in Manchester's high court on Tues 15.
The Judge reserved judgement until today. Salford council won. I will post copy of judgement when available


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 Post subject: Re: Salford De-Limit
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:35 pm 
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tom2907 wrote:
Salford had thier judicial review in Manchester's high court on Tues 15.
The Judge reserved judgement until today. Salford council won. I will post copy of judgement when available


I wonder what knock on effect this will have on the Manchester HC trade?

I wonder which trade bodies were involved?

I wonder if they actually read the Royston Wirral court case?

CC

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 Post subject: Re: Salford De-Limit
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:23 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
I wonder what knock on effect this will have on the Manchester HC trade?

I wonder which trade bodies were involved?

I wonder if they actually read the Royston Wirral court case?

From afar I would say;

1) None.

2) Maybe it was the NTTG, or whatever they call themselves.

3) Tunnel vision doesn't allow reading of such judgements.

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 Post subject: Re: Salford De-Limit
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:44 pm 
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Sussex wrote:

From afar I would say;

1) None.


Strange you should say that, I always got the impression JD was concerned the salford vehicles would be used in manchester.

CC

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 Post subject: Re: Salford De-Limit
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:11 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Strange you should say that, I always got the impression JD was concerned the salford vehicles would be used in manchester.

I suppose they could be via an operator, but can't seem to recall what his views were on this.

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 Post subject: Re: Salford De-Limit
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:30 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
captain cab wrote:
Strange you should say that, I always got the impression JD was concerned the salford vehicles would be used in manchester.

I suppose they could be via an operator, but can't seem to recall what his views were on this.


I think he was more concerned with salford than any other area, but alas, we'll never know :cry:

CC

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:02 am 
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There is a debate raging on the Stockport blog. JD's concern was that Salford would become Manchester's Berwick.

It is highly likely. With approx 1100 drivers waiting for a Manchester plate. The border between these two cities is literally yards, and that is Manchester City Centre.

Salford currently has 79 cabs and Manchester over 1000, Salford plates had been trading around £30k with rents for a cab at £250 ish.

This could destabilise the whole of Greater Manchester. As usual there will be winners and losers. At least one "fleet owner" with 7 Salford plates will be feeling rather dissapointed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:44 am 
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What implications will this have on Stockport?

There seems to be a bunch of people who are rumoured to be preparing to challenge Stockport council on the basis that they applied for a free plate in person, email, phone and letter inbetween when Stockport was lawfully deregulated on 11th Feb 2009 and when SODA applied for an injunction so there was a period of time when Stockport was deregulated lawfully and had no lawful reason to refuse a plate to applicants due to no injunction being in place that short period.

Do they have a leg to stand on?

Will Norman Elthorpe even bother to go to court again? :roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:28 pm 
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3.2 PHASE 2 - TAXI TRADES

3.2.1 During the summer of 2008, a postal survey of all taxi and private hire operators and drivers was carried out. The questionnaire was accompanied by revised licence conditions for the hackney carriage and private hire trades.

3.2.2 Some 1501 questionnaires were posted out resulting in 129 being completed and returned, a response rate of 8.6%.

3.2.3 73 (61%) of respondents were against the delimitation of taxi licenses and 47 (39%) in favour.

3.2.4 Respondents were asked to give reasons for their answer. Members of the hackney carriage trade who were not in favour of delimitation generally expressed the view that there was insufficient work currently available and delimitation would result in more drivers chasing fewer jobs.

3.2.5 Comments from those in favour of delimitation were that they were unable to satisfy current demand, particularly on Salford Quays; others were turning down work in other parts of the City. A number of drivers welcomed the opportunity to buy their own vehicles and run their own businesses. Some respondents who were in favour of increasing taxi licence numbers favoured managed growth by ‘drip feeding’ new licences.

3.2.6 Concern was expressed by a number of respondents on the proposal to introduce age restrictions on vehicles. A general view was that so long as a vehicle passed the test it should be allowed to continue in service irrespective of its age.

3.2.7 The survey also sought the views of the trade on the location of new taxi ranks as many of the existing ranks are not used. There was a good response to this question and work is already progressing with the Licensing Section, Highway Authority, the taxi trade and disabled groups.

3.3 FURTHER CONSULTATION WITH THE TAXI AND PRIVATE HIRE TRADES

3.3.1 Following the initial round of consultation with the taxi trades a decision was taken to incorporate the amended draft licensing conditions into a comprehensive policy document. In December 2008, copies of the newly prepared draft policy were sent to all of the respondents from the taxi and private hire trades who, during the initial round of consultation, had expressed an interest in attending a focus group to discuss taxi policy. Members of the private hire and hackney carriage trades were invited to separate meetings at the Turnpike House auditorium on the evening of the 13th and 14th January 2009 respectively. Letters were sent to all other drivers who were not invited to the meeting advising them that:

a) a new draft policy had been formulated

b) copies were available from the Licensing Officer, libraries or via the internet

c) the Directorate was seeking feedback on the draft proposals

3.3.2 Eleven members of the private hire trade attended the meeting on the 13th January and forty two attended the hackney carriage meeting on 14th January.

3.3.3 At the outset of the meetings, attendees were asked to give careful consideration to the issues that would be discussed during the course of the evening and to put their comments in writing to the Licensing Section before the end of the consultation process in order that full and proper consideration could be given to them.

3.3.4 An Environmental Monitoring Officer from the Environmental Protection Team gave a presentation on the subject of air quality management in Salford and Vehicle Emission Standards and explained the rationale for introducing emission standards for taxi and private hire vehicles.

3.3.5 The major cause for concern expressed by the private hire trade was in relation to vehicles complying with the proposed emission standards. It was claimed that the recession was having an adverse impact in the taxi trade and the requirement to invest in newer cleaner vehicles would result in financial hardship.

3.3.6 It was felt that the proposed requirement for vehicles to meet Euro 3 by April 2010 was too early.

3.3.7 The proposed dress code gave cause for concern to one attendee.

3.3.8 In the case of the hackney carriage trade the major causes for concern were:

(a) The proposed removal of the restriction on hackney carriage licences in a time of recession would result in financial hardship.

(b) The inability of TX2 taxis to be converted to meet Euro 4 standards by April 2012.

(c) Insufficient numbers and poorly sited taxi ranks.

3.3.9 Some attendees at the meeting were critical of the Directorate’s consultation exercise with the community. It was felt the low numbers of responses to the questionnaire inviting feedback on taxi availability and delimitation meant that no meaningful conclusion could be drawn as to whether it was appropriate to lift the current restriction. The general view of several of the major taxi operators was that –

An unmet demand survey should be commissioned as a pre requisite to any change in policy. If the survey revealed there to be no unmet demand the existing policy should remain unaltered. If there was evidence of unmet demand it should be met by managed growth of licence numbers.

    The postal survey carried out by the Licensing Section was not statistically robust and should not be used as a basis for delimitation.

    There was no current unmet demand for taxi services in the City

    There would be insufficient work for existing drivers


3.3.10 The concerns of wheelchair users were raised by Officers in terms of their difficulty in hiring a black cab by phone. The response from the trade was that the very nature of the hackney trade was that vehicles ranked and plied for hire and that was their major role in providing transportation. If people wanted to phone for transport they should ring a private hire company and not a black cab. There is the only one hackney carriage operator in Salford who has radio contact with their fleet.

3.3.11 The trade requested that a further unmet demand survey should be carried out which they were prepared to fund. If the survey showed there was no unmet demand then that should be sufficient reason for the Council not to proceed with delimitation.

3.3.12 Concern was expressed by one individual and then supported by several others that the consultation period was insufficient and that it be extended to March.

3.3.13 It was pointed out that this was the second stage of consultation and the major areas of concern to the hackney carriage trade were fundamentally the same. The request for an extension of time was not agreed, but it was agreed that a further meeting with representatives of the hackney trade would be held when all of the written responses to consultation exercise had been considered.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:52 pm 
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It seems reasonably clear that sometime between January and March 09 the regulatory panel developed some serious mental issues.

CC

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:24 pm 
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This is why they couldnt afford a survey......f*cking biscuits!

Town hall saves £30k – by banning biscuits
Exclusive by Neal Keeling

February 10, 2010

A town hall is saving £30,000 – by banning biscuits and drinks at meetings.

Bourbons, custard creams and Rich Tea will no longer be served at Salford council.

Tea and coffee have also been banned – but full refreshments will be served at civic events.

The move will affect 20,000 meetings each year.

Council bosses also propose saving £40,000 by not planting bulbs in civic parks and gardens.

Another £5,000 will be saved by reducing the number of agenda papers printed and investing in computers for up to ten councillors and senior officers.

A staff canteen at Turnpike House, which is a council depot on Eccles New Road, where binmen, trading standards officers, and housing officials are based, will be shut to save £16,000.The measures are part of a £12m package of cuts.

The council plans to raise £20,000 by introducing charges for the pest control of mice, cockroaches and bed bugs.

A council spokesman said of the biscuit ban: “We are proposing to no longer provide tea and coffee refreshments or biscuits for any of our internal meetings as they are not essential costs.

“At civic meeting or meetings involving visitors where there’s an expectation of a level of hospitality, these refreshments will be provided.”

He added: “We’ve looked at all of our pest control services and are proposing to bring fees in line with similar services that we already charge for. We don’t have to plant bulbs annually because we use ones that flower over a number of years.”

Coun Bill Hinds said: “We will end the financial year with balanced books as we do every year and with sufficient reserves to meet future contingencies.”

He added: “We’re continuing to deliver our efficiency programme and are on target to save more than £30m in three years.

“We’re making efficiencies rather than cuts to services and next year we hope to deliver around a further £12m of efficiency savings to help us improve services for residents.”

The council’s annual spending is about £628m with £130m alone spent on schools.

Coun Norman Owen, leader of the Liberal Democrats in Salford, said: “It shows how tight things are if we are being reduced to cutting tea and refreshments.”

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:32 am 
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captain cab wrote:
A town hall is saving £30,000 – by banning biscuits and drinks at meetings.

Bourbons, custard creams and Rich Tea will no longer be served at Salford council.

This is just so typical council. :sad:

I suspect that instead of getting someone to nip down to Asda to buy a bucket of 19p biscuits they get them in from a supplier charging them £s a bucket.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:49 pm 
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75 meetings a day??? how do they find the time to do any work?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:44 pm 
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grandad wrote:
75 meetings a day??? how do they find the time to do any work?

They have 75 meetings a day to avoid work at all costs.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:52 am 
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The issue of delimit is of great concern to Manchester hackney drivers as it is to most hac drivers in the country.
I feel that the berwick example is a good one.
Salford have for too long been their own worst enemies in as much that 72 cabs for an area the size of salford is a joke
Just like manchester the plate value keeps the trade ie the owners as allways from realising the truth ostrich in the sand syndrome
How can a plate in salford be worth 30k
Manchester 60k?
Hacs 1000 manchester PH 3000+
Its not hard to work out how salford delimited
Or why the PH trade in salford is 50 times the size of the hacs
At least.........
personel remarks about certain owners 7 cabs what a joke 7 cabs are worth £210000 thats the joke for a salford area where no one gets a black cab?
I drive a hac in manchester and constantly despair we have a fleet of 1000+
And 250 cabs have a radio ?
750 cabs + waiting and hoping for a job?
On ranks......
The new deal in manchester is for a lottery for the issue of new plates that is al lthe trade are talking about?
No one seems to care about PH taking over the town hotels etc just who will win a worthless plate to sit around waiting for the next job.
Why ?
Because Manchester will deregulate after countless legal challenges disagreements and god knows how many meetings on the issue of plates the easy way out for the council is right in front of them a free for all and may the best man or woman win.
Me i,m going to buy a lottery ticket along with everyone else and hope...


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