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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:30 am 
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Hackney carriage drivers in Chichester hit back at district council
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Hackney carriage drivers in Chichester have hit back at the district council for its decision not to cap the number of drivers earning a living on the ranks.

Chichester driver Jim Rendle said the livelihoods of existing hackney carriage drivers were being threatened because of an increase in the number of drivers and said a cap was needed.

The turnover of drivers was low, with more drivers applying to work the ranks than leaving and some drivers travelling many miles to work in Chichester, he added.

Mr Rendle, who was responding to a report of the licensing and enforcement committee published in the Observer on November 17, said it was drivers who would have to foot the bill for a survey into restricting numbers – and not the council.

“We were told that if we wanted a survey we had to pay for it so it wouldn’t be an unnecessary expense for the council,” said Mr Rendle.

“Councillor Barrett said there might be some more taxis needed and Councillor Budge said, ‘it is going too far to cap someone else’s livelihood’, but what about our livelihood?

“We are the ones sitting outside trying to make a living. I sat for two-and-a-half hours one day the other week with no business. In two days I made thirty quid over nine, ten hours. Clearly there isn’t the work to go round; we can’t afford to have more drivers.

“As a hackney carriage driver you are not allowed to have a car which is more than five years old, and you have it MOTed twice a year.

“That is all good stuff, but it’s all extra expense for us. The price of a badge and licence plate has gone up and the fares haven’t gone up since 2008. With the price of fuel the way it is going, it’s just making harder and harder for us to make a living.

“We have to stay out longer to make the same amount of money, and tired drivers won’t be the safest drivers.

“Some people are doing double shifts to make the money.”

Mr Rendle said the hackney carriage community also wanted to find out where all the money they paid to the council went, whether it went into one big pot or went specifically on enforcement.

He also suggested CDC’s knowledge test for drivers was far too easy, which resulted in more drivers coming on board, and he questioned having councillors from places such as Rogate and Fernhurst deciding on taxi issues when there were no ranks in the north of the district.

The job had become much more dangerous as well, with more problems being encountered with people refusing to pay fares, he added.

At last month’s committee meeting members heard the council had never limited the number of licences, with the current level at 57. Senior technical officer Ian Smith told the meeting the slice of the cake had been getting smaller and smaller, with drivers working longer hours, and he had some safety concerns because drivers were working longer.

source: http://www.chichester.co.uk/

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:34 am 
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captain cab wrote:
“Councillor Barrett said there might be some more taxis needed and Councillor Budge said, ‘it is going too far to cap someone else’s livelihood’, but what about our livelihood?

Here we go again. :roll:

I understand why the driver has that view, but the councillor is spot on.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:04 pm 
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Quote:
Hackney carriage drivers in Chichester have hit back at the district council for its decision not to cap the number of drivers earning a living on the ranks.


That would be illegal anyway [-X

Quote:
“We have to stay out longer to make the same amount of money, and tired drivers won’t be the safest drivers."


Yes, it's a pity drivers don't maintain there hours during a recession, because if everyone works longer hours then they're just doing it for nothing. :-k


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:10 pm 
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Dusty Bin wrote:
Quote:
Hackney carriage drivers in Chichester have hit back at the district council for its decision not to cap the number of drivers earning a living on the ranks.


That would be illegal anyway [-X


That'll be poor reporting I guess.

Dusty Bin wrote:
Quote:
“We have to stay out longer to make the same amount of money, and tired drivers won’t be the safest drivers."


Yes, it's a pity drivers don't maintain there hours during a recession, because if everyone works longer hours then they're just doing it for nothing. :-k


You dispute drivers are working longer hours? Perhaps not.....so you're basically saying everyone should suffer and limit their hours.....even though the costs of operating remain the same?

CC

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:11 pm 
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Dusty Bin wrote:
Yes, it's a pity drivers don't maintain there hours during a recession, because if everyone works longer hours then they're just doing it for nothing. :-k

You make a good point, but trying to get that over to drivers is nigh on impossible.

Believe me I have tried. ](*,)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:20 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Dusty Bin wrote:
Quote:
Hackney carriage drivers in Chichester have hit back at the district council for its decision not to cap the number of drivers earning a living on the ranks.


That would be illegal anyway [-X


That'll be poor reporting I guess.



Not necessarily, since the local trade may well want to portray it that way while at the same time continuing to take on drivers. If the facts were made more obvious then the decision to cap vehicle numbers might look less attractive to councillors, or whoever.

In fact, once upon a time I pointed out this particular error to a journalist, and he said he would ask the trade to clarify the matter.

But they wouldn't comment :-$

Quote:
Dusty Bin wrote:
Quote:
“We have to stay out longer to make the same amount of money, and tired drivers won’t be the safest drivers."


Yes, it's a pity drivers don't maintain there hours during a recession, because if everyone works longer hours then they're just doing it for nothing. :-k


You dispute drivers are working longer hours? Perhaps not.....so you're basically saying everyone should suffer and limit their hours.....even though the costs of operating remain the same?


What I meant is that they're all working more hours for the same takings.

Suppose the trade has some drivers doing days and some doing nights. :shock:

If they all decide they want to double their earnings and thus all start doing double shifts then what would happen?

Simple - there would be twice as many drivers out at any one time, thus they'd be getting half the work they were previously, thus in effect they'd be working twice the hours for the same money at the end of the shift.

OK, drivers don't normally double their hours like that, but if they all increase their hours by the same amount - as might happen in a recession - then they're all working longer hours for the same money.

Thus there's a kind of vicious circle at work - less customers mean less takings, so the drivers work more hours, which is pointless, thus they're working more hours for less work than before the recession.

If everyone worked the same hours then they might have less takings due to less customers due to the recession, but at least they wouldn't be doing more hours :-k


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:31 pm 
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Feckin hell einstein your wasted as a cabbie !


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:51 am 
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blackpool wrote:
Feckin hell einstein your wasted as a cabbie !


Thought I wasn't :wink: :D


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:15 am 
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Sussex wrote:
Dusty Bin wrote:
Yes, it's a pity drivers don't maintain there hours during a recession, because if everyone works longer hours then they're just doing it for nothing. :-k

You make a good point, but trying to get that over to drivers is nigh on impossible.

Believe me I have tried. ](*,)


Indeed, and in any case it would be difficult to get drivers to act in concert to avoid such a situation. In fact that might be construed as anti-competitive and a cartel under competition law. For example, suppose every driver agreed to work 25% less hours per week. Thus they could all make the same for working less hours. Of course, the public would have to wait longer for a cab, thus to that extent it's an agreement to fix the market to the detriment of consumers, so could well be illegal. :shock:

But another way of looking at the recession issue is to consider the amount of extra hours drivers are working. Say there are 100 drivers working 50 hours per week, and each starts working 10 hours extra per week. That's an extra 1,000 hours in total.

Which is the same as taking on 20 new drivers. Now the effect of taking on 20 new drivers would be obvious, but in the example it's exactly the same as the existing drivers each working 10 extra hours each.

Of course, that's simplying the real world a bit, and even in a recession all drivers are unlikely to increase their hours.

Thus the ones who don't will be the ones suffering most - they have less work because of the recession, and this is made worse by the other drivers who work more hours.

Please note that I'm not blaming individual drivers, because they may need to maintain an income and thus if they work more hours and other drivers don't then those working longer will be better off, but the drivers maintaining their hours will suffer doubly.

It's only if ALL drivers increase their hours by the same amount that everyone just earns the same, but there'll always be some drivers increasing their hours by more than others, thus some earn more, while others earn less (even ignoring the downturn in customer numbers).

And neither do I think there's really much that could be done about this, it's just an observation about how the market works.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:16 am 
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Dusty Bin wrote:

Indeed, and in any case it would be difficult to get drivers to act in concert to avoid such a situation. In fact that might be construed as anti-competitive and a cartel under competition law. For example, suppose every driver agreed to work 25% less hours per week. Thus they could all make the same for working less hours. Of course, the public would have to wait longer for a cab, thus to that extent it's an agreement to fix the market to the detriment of consumers, so could well be illegal. :shock:



Thats correct, we need to teach drivers about global capitalism and the greed of the banks and neglect of government regulators that put us all in this situation. :roll:

Dusty Bin wrote:

But another way of looking at the recession issue is to consider the amount of extra hours drivers are working. Say there are 100 drivers working 50 hours per week, and each starts working 10 hours extra per week. That's an extra 1,000 hours in total.

Which is the same as taking on 20 new drivers. Now the effect of taking on 20 new drivers would be obvious, but in the example it's exactly the same as the existing drivers each working 10 extra hours each.

Of course, that's simplying the real world a bit, and even in a recession all drivers are unlikely to increase their hours.



I dont think anything you write is in the real world, could you run that by me again please because it sounds as if you were high on drugs when you typed it.


Dusty Bin wrote:
Thus the ones who don't will be the ones suffering most - they have less work because of the recession, and this is made worse by the other drivers who work more hours.

Please note that I'm not blaming individual drivers, because they may need to maintain an income and thus if they work more hours and other drivers don't then those working longer will be better off, but the drivers maintaining their hours will suffer doubly.



Same point as before.....the costs of operating have broadly remained the same.....except of course insurance and the obvious fuel.......what has happened is that customers are using fewer cabs.....they are doing this because they are either saving up for christmas.....they havent got any spare cash.....or they are not going out.......Either way...you appear to expect drivers to see a daily reduction in their takings and not try to make any redress.

If we work on a figure even as low as £10 per day, which in the majority of cases equals £70 per week....... because trade is sh*te drivers have to work 14 hours plus for an income that will only make their takings the same as before......but the £10 per day is imaginary.....the figure is double even treble that.


Dusty Bin wrote:
It's only if ALL drivers increase their hours by the same amount that everyone just earns the same, but there'll always be some drivers increasing their hours by more than others, thus some earn more, while others earn less (even ignoring the downturn in customer numbers).

And neither do I think there's really much that could be done about this, it's just an observation about how the market works.


Your market must work different to the one I know of.

CC

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:24 am 
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captain cab wrote:
Your market must work different to the one I know of.


Doubt it - I think it's our heads that work, er, differently #-o

Try this one.

There are 10 drivers in a town, and 100 jobs per day.

Each driver therefore gets ten jobs per day. 8-[

I take it we're still in agreement thus far? [-o<

OK, so each driver works an extra couple of hours a day.

So how many jobs do they get?

There's still 100 jobs per day and ten drivers, so each still gets 10 jobs.

So they're working a couple of hours a day more for no gain.

All that happens is that they wait longer for each job.

Simples :-s


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:49 am 
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Dusty Bin wrote:
captain cab wrote:
Your market must work different to the one I know of.


Doubt it - I think it's our heads that work, er, differently #-o

Try this one.

There are 10 drivers in a town, and 100 jobs per day.

Each driver therefore gets ten jobs per day. 8-[

I take it we're still in agreement thus far? [-o<

OK, so each driver works an extra couple of hours a day.

So how many jobs do they get?

There's still 100 jobs per day and ten drivers, so each still gets 10 jobs.

So they're working a couple of hours a day more for no gain.

All that happens is that they wait longer for each job.

Simples :-s



Dusty, I dont know where you work, but the chances are 10 cabs doing 100 jobs would never work out at 10 jobs each, especially if I work there, because I always get the rtfc and another driver always gets that good one out of district.

CC

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:42 am 
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Ok Wayne, why don't you explain how everyone working extra hours will put extra bums on seats?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:03 am 
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gusmac wrote:
Ok Wayne, why don't you explain how everyone working extra hours will put extra bums on seats?



Because eventually a customer will come to a taxi rank and hire the taxi.....or is that a novel idea in Aberdeen and Dustyland?

CC

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:23 am 
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captain cab wrote:
gusmac wrote:
Ok Wayne, why don't you explain how everyone working extra hours will put extra bums on seats?



Because eventually a customer will come to a taxi rank and hire the taxi.....or is that a novel idea in Aberdeen and Dustyland?

CC

They would do that anyway.
People don't hire a taxi just because there are 10 on the rank instead of 6.
Or maybe they do in Carlisle?

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