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The National Taxi Association

For further details please contact; Wayne Casey secretary@national-taxi-association.co.uk or telephone 01228 598740

I've got a good idea ................. lets not debate the questions raised .................... lets try and personally assassinate an individual instead.

What a great basis for a taxi issue debating forum.

B. Lucky

GA wrote:

Mr Casey complained about TDO policy of anonymity, yet he deliberately omitted his name from the response he wrote in his capacity as acting secretary of that secret organisation called the NTA. Seems a little strange that he wants to denounce our policy in one hand and mimic it in the other?

In respect of the NCC press release, it speaks volumes that they should come to us and not the NTA. Perhaps it thinks the NTA is an organisation not to be trusted?

What do you think? lol

Regards

JD

Have you never heard of the saying quit while your ahead? Mind you you've never been in front have you?

GA wrote:

Press Release

National Consumer Council Letter

The NCC claim that regulation disadvantages consumers, and protects taxi owners from competition, yet they offer no valid evidence to support this assumption.

In de-regulated areas, taxi fares tend to be more expensive pro rata and drivers are able to choose to work during the day, for reasons of personal convenience & safety. This leads to lower numbers of taxis available at night and particularly at weekends, especially at periods of peak demand. This is a very important consideration, as taxis help clear the city centres late at night, thereby reducing public disorder. The greater availability of taxis at night in regulated areas actually reduces the use of unlicensed vehicles, and does not, as the NCC suggest, increase the use of unlicensed vehicles - London’s experience with the illegal minicabs illustrates this point.

THE NCC CAME TO YOU? :lol:

When we all know it MUST have been the other way round?

The NCC Press Release mentions a survey they had carried out for them by TNS, but I can't find any detail anywhere..... has anyone seen this survey, or know how to get hold of a copy??

Author:	Alex [ Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:	NCC Press Release
End ‘postcode lottery’ for licensed taxis Almost a third of local councils in England are ignoring government advice by restricting the number of licensed taxis in their area – with damaging effects on their local communities, says the National Consumer Council (NCC). This week NCC has written to council chiefs at the 96 councils, urging them to abolish these unnecessary and anti-competitive restrictions. They mean fewer licensed taxis on the streets and longer taxi queues – tempting people to risk unlicensed cabs. NCC’s letter says that restrictions on taxi numbers not only disadvantage consumers, they unfairly prevent newcomers entering the taxi trade. NCC is acting now ahead of a promised government review later this year. Steve Brooker, NCC Senior Policy Advocate explains: ‘For many people, taxis are an essential service - especially if you are older or don’t have access to a car. A taxi may be the only way you can get to see the doctor or go shopping, for instance. Yet quantity controls can mean finding a licensed taxi when you most need one is a postcode lottery. ‘Our latest research shows that 2.4 million people used an unlicensed cab last year – with 16 to 24-year-olds most likely to do so. Many councils have already abolished restrictions on taxi numbers - we urge the remainder to put their local residents first and do the same without delay.’ 23rd February 2007 Notes to editors 1. The list of 96 English local councils that limit the number of licensed taxis that can operate is in Taxi Regulation at-a-glance attached to this news release and at: http://www.ncc.org.uk/policy/taxis.pdf For updates to the list see www.taxi-driver.co.uk 2. Across England, except in London, taxis are regulated by local licensing authorities. In addition to setting maximum fare levels and carrying out quality checks on taxi drivers and vehicles they drive, some councils also limit the numbers of taxis that can operate. More information in the Taxis: background briefing for journalists document attached to this press release and at: http://www.ncc.org.uk/regulation/taxi-brief.pdf 3. In 2003, the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) concluded that quantity restrictions on licensed taxis harm competition and should be abolished. 4. In 2004, the Government said it agreed with the OFT’s analysis but local councils should decide what is appropriate. It promised to review progress in three years time and explore legislative options if needed. 5. In 2006, Department for Transport guidance made clear that it considers removing quantity controls to be best practice, stating that policy should be decided: “in terms of the interests of the travelling public”. 6. NCC’s consumer research on taxis was carried out by TNS Consumer Omnibus Survey from 13-17 December 2006, based on interviews with a representative sample of 1000 consumers. 7. Advice and information on taxi safety can be found at: www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport ... rivateHire

Author:	MR T [ Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:20 am ]
Post subject:
Press release In response to the National Consumer Council (NCC) Regulation of taxi numbers is a highly emotive issue within the Hackney Carriage (Taxi) Industry. In our experience, oversupply of Hackney Carriages is equally as perilous as undersupply; neither seems to benefit the public. It could be argued, local authorities that regularly monitor demand, carrying out consumer questionnaires and attitude surveys regarding their taxi service, are in many ways acting more responsibly than those local authorities that issue licenses with little regard for either demand or public opinion. The NCC news release is in our opinion speculative, based upon presumption, and offers little new evidence to the debate. The presumption of regulated areas having longer taxi queues than those areas that don’t regulate entry, is merely guesswork. Experience tells us both limited and delimited areas at some point have periods where demand outstrips supply, just as with many other businesses within the service industry. To suggest regulation tempts people to risk unlicensed cabs must equally suggest these illegal activities do not exist in delimited areas; this is of course, a fallacy. Choosing to hold a consumer research survey during the third week of December, one of the busiest periods of the year for the taxi trade in both limited and delimited areas, is obviously quite remarkable, showing complete lack of understanding. The NCC advise 2.4 million people used unlicensed cabs last year, yet fail to advise how many of the 2.4 million people did so in areas that operate numbers control. Again, the 2.4 million figure, appears to be nothing more than guesswork in this respect. The NCC seem to be working under the illusion that local authorities regulate entry to keep taxi operators happy and content, this certainly isnt the case. The fact is local authorities are best placed to decide how they want their taxi service to operate, legislation is in place to ensure they can issue licenses as and when they deem it necessary. We are astonished the NCC has chosen to use sources where the authors wish to remain anonymous. To our knowledge, areas that do not restrict taxi numbers do not survey demand, it would therefore appear the NCC position has been arrived at upon a presumption of regulation automatically meaning a poorer service. Further to the above the NCC suggest numbers control reduces the likelihood of innovation and improvements to the quality of service, this is an erroneous belief with little supporting evidence. The National Taxi Association For further details please contact; secretary@national-taxi-association.co.uk or telephone 01228 598740

Author:	GA [ Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:04 am ]
Post subject:
"For many people, taxis are an essential service - especially if you are older or don’t have access to a car. A taxi may be the only way you can get to see the doctor or go shopping, for instance. Yet quantity controls can mean finding a licensed taxi when you most need one is a postcode lottery". Is that not why they introduced Private Hire Licensing in 1976. I think this whole thing is garbage, I mean a taxi wouldn't usually carry out the sort of work explained unless it was working under a PH contract through a PH operator .............. where the amount of vehicles has never been restricted yet they can still not adequately supply service to these people. Having more vehicles licenced HC will not alleviate any of the problems mentioned within this , the second of its kind, ill educated guessed reports. Restricting the numbers of HC and directing people seeking to enter the trade into the PH sector WILL provide more vehicles to provide the services to the required levels, with the number of these vehicles being unrestricted. Its like saying that people wait to long for the emergency services and then putting on 200 new Fire Engines without even thinking more ambulances may be required. These people should really think about what they are saying about things they no little about .............. or maybe their advisers should be shot with $hit. Hope my LO gets this .................... he'll pi$$ himself. B. Lucky

Author:	JD [ Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:11 am ]
Post subject:
MR T wrote: The National Taxi Association For further details please contact; Wayne Casey secretary@national-taxi-association.co.uk or telephone 01228 598740 Why does the NTA have no secretary. Doesn't Wayne Casey want to see the job leave Carlisle? Is he waiting for one of his yes man in Carlisle to take over the job? You can't tell me out of all the members of the NTA they can't get a secretary? Regards JD

Author:	GA [ Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:28 am ]
Post subject:
I've got a good idea ................. lets not debate the questions raised .................... lets try and personally assassinate an individual instead. What a great basis for a taxi issue debating forum. B. Lucky

Taxi Driver Online http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/

NCC Press Release http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5657	Page 1 of 5

Author:	JD [ Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:15 am ]
Post subject:
GA wrote: I've got a good idea ................. lets not debate the questions raised .................... lets try and personally assassinate an individual instead. What a great basis for a taxi issue debating forum. B. Lucky Mr Casey complained about TDO policy of anonymity, yet he deliberately omitted his name from the response he wrote in his capacity as acting secretary of that secret organisation called the NTA. Seems a little strange that he wants to denounce our policy in one hand and mimic it in the other? In respect of the NCC press release, it speaks volumes that they should come to us and not the NTA. Perhaps it thinks the NTA is an organisation not to be trusted? What do you think? lol Regards JD

Author:	Nigel [ Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:19 am ]
Post subject:
JD wrote: GA wrote: I've got a good idea ................. lets not debate the questions raised .................... lets try and personally assassinate an individual instead. What a great basis for a taxi issue debating forum. B. Lucky Mr Casey complained about TDO policy of anonymity, yet he deliberately omitted his name from the response he wrote in his capacity as acting secretary of that secret organisation called the NTA. Seems a little strange that he wants to denounce our policy in one hand and mimic it in the other? In respect of the NCC press release, it speaks volumes that they should come to us and not the NTA. Perhaps it thinks the NTA is an organisation not to be trusted? What do you think? lol Regards JD Have you never heard of the saying quit while your ahead? Mind you you've never been in front have you?

Author:	JD [ Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:25 am ]
Post subject:
Nigel wrote: Have you never heard of the saying quit while your ahead? Mind you you've never been in front have you? I find it hard to keep up with you Nigel, Perhaps you should be a little more considerate and slow down? lol Regards JD

Author:	foxy100 [ Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:16 am ]
Post subject:	NTTG Response to NCC Press Release
Press Release National Consumer Council Letter The NCC claim in their letter, that Local Councils which choose to regulate taxi numbers are doing so in defiance of Department for Transport guidance. This is simply not the case. Department for Transport guidance is that where regular surveys demonstrate there is no ‘significant unmet demand’ Councils may regulate taxi numbers. While many areas have removed regulation, they tend to be the more rural areas where demand is sporadic. The majority of large metropolitan areas have either kept limits, or re-introduced regulation. The NCC claim that regulation disadvantages consumers, and protects taxi owners from competition, yet they offer no valid evidence to support this assumption. In areas where regulation is in place, survey data shows that consumers are not disadvantaged, in fact they benefit from the regulation of taxi numbers. This may appear at first sight to be counter-intuitive, however, closer examination explains the apparent anomaly. Where numbers are regulated, most taxis are double-manned. One driver uses the vehicle during the day, and another driver takes over at night. This makes cost-effective use of the vehicle and its licence. In de-regulated areas, taxi fares tend to be more expensive pro rata and drivers are able to choose to work during the day, for reasons of personal convenience & safety. This leads to lower numbers of taxis available at night and particularly at weekends, especially at periods of peak demand. This is a very important consideration, as taxis help clear the city centres late at night, thereby reducing public disorder. The greater availability of taxis at night in regulated areas actually reduces the use of unlicensed vehicles, and does not, as the NCC suggest, increase the use of unlicensed vehicles - London’s experience with the illegal minicabs illustrates this point. Where regulation has been removed, there may be an initial increase in the number of vehicles, but the lower revenue generation per vehicle quickly leads to reduced quality of maintenance, older vehicles being kept in use, higher emission levels and a less professional trade in general. This is borne out by the survey results from those areas which regulate numbers. The greater number of vehicles during the day leads to more vehicles driving around chasing fares, increasing traffic congestion and causing increased emissions. Many cities have also experienced this problem with bus de-regulation; local authorities are increasingly turning to quality bus contracts, which are in effect re-regulation, proving that market forces alone do not suffice. In a regulated area, the greater utilisation of each vehicle leads to newer and better maintained vehicles, producing less emissions, more professional full-time drivers and better law enforcement. Conveniently, in areas where regulation has been removed, there are no surveys to support the assumption of the NCC that an unlimited number of licences equates to a better level of service. There are, however, a growing number of areas that have found the exact opposite to be the case, and have re-introduced regulation to address these very issues. Subsequent surveys have confirmed the fact that delimitation has not been beneficial to the travelling public. The NCC repeatedly quote the OFT report, yet fail to mention that this report was heavily criticised by the Transport Select Committee for the poor quality of the research on which it was based. Customer demand varies by time of day, day of week, and holiday periods, so it is inevitable that on some occasions, customers may have to queue for a taxi. This applies equally to any retail or service business which experiences fluctuating demand. Removing limits does not address this issue, as anyone who has tried to get a taxi in London (where numbers are not limited) on a Saturday night will know. At weekends in particular, town centres and cities fill as the public travel in using various forms of public transport, over a period of several hours. As pubs and clubs close, over a short period of time, they all want to go home. As buses, trains and trams reduce service or stop for the night, the burden is placed on the taxi driver. Taxis are a fundamental part of the transport infrastructure, and should be considered in relation to the whole of the Local transport plan, not in isolation as the NCC has done. The NTTG dispute the NCC assumption that the value of licence plates in regulated areas indicates that customer demand is not being met, and this is again supported by the survey data. The value of plates in regulated areas merely demonstrates that a well utilised taxi can be a viable business., in which people are prepared to invest. There needs to be a balance between the supply of taxis and customer demand. Failure to achieve balance between the two leads to poor quality of service. Local Councils, with the aid of regular surveys, are best placed to manage the situation. The NTTG believes that surveys should be carried out by all local authorities for their local transport plans whether they have limitation in place or not so as to ascertain consumer satisfaction and is surprised that the NCC appears to overlook the value to the consumer of this. The ‘Taxi Facts’ quoted by the NCC were taken from a survey carried out in the middle of December 2006, which has not been circulated at the same time as their letter. This was, we are told, a survey of 1000 representative consumers, however this is not a representative time of year, being the immediate run-up to Christmas. Secondly, what is the relevance of consumers knowing that Councils can impose quantity controls. Do these same consumers know that local Councils set the fares for taxis, or is it likely they would assume that if there were more taxis, the fares would be lower? The ‘rigorous research’ of the NCC in this instance seems to comprise a survey of Christmas shoppers and information from a website run by persons who prefer to remain unknown. It appears to be based largely on assumption, and does not take into account the level of taxi and other transport fares, the availability of other modes of public transport or indeed show any concession to ‘joined up transport’. The National Taxi Trade Group 23/02/2007 For further information, please contact secretary@nttg.org.uk or telephone 0161 969 1149

Author:	foxy100 [ Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:20 am ]
Post subject:	NCC Press Release - Missing Survey Information
The NCC Press Release mentions a survey they had carried out for them by TNS, but I can't find any detail anywhere..... has anyone seen this survey, or know how to get hold of a copy??

Author:	jimbo [ Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:25 am ]
Post subject:
JD wrote: GA wrote: I've got a good idea ................. lets not debate the questions raised .................... lets try and personally assassinate an individual instead. What a great basis for a taxi issue debating forum. B. Lucky Mr Casey complained about TDO policy of anonymity, yet he deliberately omitted his name from the response he wrote in his capacity as acting secretary of that secret organisation called the NTA. Seems a little strange that he wants to denounce our policy in one hand and mimic it in the other? In respect of the NCC press release, it speaks volumes that they should come to us and not the NTA. Perhaps it thinks the NTA is an organisation not to be trusted? What do you think? lol Regards JD THE NCC CAME TO YOU? When we all know it MUST have been the other way round?

Author:	JD [ Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: NTTG Response to NCC Press Release
foxy100 wrote: Press Release National Consumer Council Letter The NCC claim that regulation disadvantages consumers, and protects taxi owners from competition, yet they offer no valid evidence to support this assumption. In de-regulated areas, taxi fares tend to be more expensive pro rata and drivers are able to choose to work during the day, for reasons of personal convenience & safety. This leads to lower numbers of taxis available at night and particularly at weekends, especially at periods of peak demand. This is a very important consideration, as taxis help clear the city centres late at night, thereby reducing public disorder. The greater availability of taxis at night in regulated areas actually reduces the use of unlicensed vehicles, and does not, as the NCC suggest, increase the use of unlicensed vehicles - London’s experience with the illegal minicabs illustrates this point. More propganda. I notice this outfit accuses the NCC for not producing figures. I also notice this outfit doesn't produce any figures to back up their own assumptions? How amazing? Maybe thats because the statement is untrue. If the NTTG have any figures to back up their claims then TDO and I'm sure the rest of the Taxi trade would like to see them. If they can't produce any figures then we can assume they have none and their press statement is meant to misrepresent the facts. Regards JD

Author:	JD [ Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:31 am ]
Post subject:
jimbo wrote: THE NCC CAME TO YOU? When we all know it MUST have been the other way round? If you say jimbo. lol Why don't you like the idea of the NCC coming to us and not people like you? Does that wrangle you in some way? Regards JD

Author:	JD [ Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: NCC Press Release - Missing Survey Information
foxy100 wrote: The NCC Press Release mentions a survey they had carried out for them by TNS, but I can't find any detail anywhere..... has anyone seen this survey, or know how to get hold of a copy?? Try the NTTG they might be able to help you and why has this NTTG response been duplicated in another thread??? Regards JD

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